urroner Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Same here. But as was stated in one of my favorite movies, Contact, if there were no other planet that had life, it would be a terrible waste of space!We live in a universe that is at least about 100 billion light-years across which is observable, it could very well be larger. Our universe, according to latest physics theories is only one of possible an infinite number of universes, with universes being created and destroyed constantly, over an infinite amount of time into the past and into the future. Now, if this planet is the only planet in all of God's creations, that would seem to be a huge waste of time and space.But, here is where the problem for me exists with the belief that this planet is the only one with life on it, what is God going to do after this planet is destroyed and all of humankind is either in Heaven or in Hell and what was He doing before the Earth was created? Remember that God has existed forever and will exist forever and if this is the only planet He has created with life, why did He make such a dramatic departure in what He was doing previous to the Creation and probably what He will be doing after the Second Coming? That for me is a serious head scratcher.Why would God, an all inclusion being, a being needed nothing external to Himself, all of a sudden decide to create a planet with life for one time only, and then snuff that planet out and any other life that existed on it? Why would He even need to create anything at all if He is a being needing no external stimulation? Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 urroner:None of us can speak to a multiverse, as they are, if they exist, outside of our universe. Link to comment
urroner Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 urroner:None of us can speak to a multiverse, as they are, if they exist, outside of our universe. Why not? I know some very smart people who do speak to it. Of course, I am not in that group, I ain't all that smart to understand the math. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 urroner:Sure anyone can speak of it, but it is speaking from absolute ignorance. It's more philosophy than math. Steven Hawking has proposed an infinite number of universes(A multiverse). So far they can't make the math work. Will they someday make it work? Possibly, maybe even probably. But as they say that day probably isn't going to be that day. Link to comment
urroner Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 urroner:Sure anyone can speak of it, but it is speaking from absolute ignorance. It's more philosophy than math. Steven Hawking has proposed an infinite number of universes(A multiverse). So far they can't make the math work. Will they someday make it work? Possibly, maybe even probably. But as they say that day probably isn't going to be that day.Science with proof isn't science, it's philosophy and the possessing the capability to demonstrate with any solid evidence of another universe isn't going to be soon. There is mathematical evidence that we are surrounded by other dimensions, but we can't gain access to them since the portals are too small. Even if we could send a rocket to another universe, it probably wouldn't survive because of the dimension problem. Suppose that universe had three temporal dimensions like our, but what would guarantee that the three dimensions there are the same as our three and are the characteristics/constants of that universe even closely similar to ours. Probably not. Link to comment
DarkScythe Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Science with proof isn't science, it's philosophy and the possessing the capability to demonstrate with any solid evidence of another universe isn't going to be soon. There is mathematical evidence that we are surrounded by other dimensions, but we can't gain access to them since the portals are too small. Even if we could send a rocket to another universe, it probably wouldn't survive because of the dimension problem. Suppose that universe had three temporal dimensions like our, but what would guarantee that the three dimensions there are the same as our three and are the characteristics/constants of that universe even closely similar to ours. Probably not.that is why we need a tardis. Edited September 17, 2012 by DarkScythe Link to comment
RobertAC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I caught the tail end of Stephen Hawking's show last night. Although there may not be a God in his viewpoint, there most certainly are billions of universes occupying space and time. Ours is just one. If this is true, then it seems to me that even if life did not exist in our universe outside of Earth, there are billions of other universes which might have it. Link to comment
urroner Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 that is why we need a tardis.I've been a member of Whoville since the 70s and would love to have a tardis, Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 urroner:I'm not too sure that the math even works. IIRC What is now proposed is that while there is an infinite number of universes the dimensions that constitute them are smaller than a electron. Link to comment
urroner Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 urroner:I'm not too sure that the math even works. IIRC What is now proposed is that while there is an infinite number of universes the dimensions that constitute them are smaller than a electron.Our universe is supposed to have come from a universe composed of higher dimensions. Is our universe contained within that universe?What if find fascinating is that how many 2 spatial dimension universes could we stack up in a pile before it gets to be an inch high? Supposedly an infinite amount.How is time measured at a subatomic level? I don't know because sometimes it's going forward, sometimes backwards, and sometimes time is standing still.All I know is that the more we know about quantum physics, the more we realize the less we know, and the less we understand what we think we know.So, what we see as a very, very small space, can be like the tardis, really, really small on the outside, but a lot bigger within. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 urroner:All we really know is that this universe is three dimensional. Four if you count movement(Time) as a dimension.Quantum physics give truth to the concept that as we know more and more about less and less we'll get to the point where we know absolutely everything about absolutely nothing. Link to comment
urroner Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 urroner:All we really know is that this universe is three dimensional. Four if you count movement(Time) as a dimension.Quantum physics give truth to the concept that as we know more and more about less and less we'll get to the point where we know absolutely everything about absolutely nothing. According to my youngest son, age 14, who started living with me about two months ago when his mother couldn't control him any more, I'm way past the point of knowing absolutely nothing, I have less pressure between my ears than a perfect vacuum. Link to comment
ERayR Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 According to my youngest son, age 14, who started living with me about two months ago when his mother couldn't control him any more, I'm way past the point of knowing absolutely nothing, I have less pressure between my ears than a perfect vacuum.Relax you will only deteriorate from there. 2 Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 urroner:It will be fun about the time he turns 25 and sees how smart you've gotten. Its been 20 years since my dad past beyond the veil, and I still miss him. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Found this interesting site.http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347 Link to comment
Garden Girl Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 According to my youngest son, age 14, who started living with me about two months ago when his mother couldn't control him any more, I'm way past the point of knowing absolutely nothing, I have less pressure between my ears than a perfect vacuum.Urroner...Warning... serious response here...Try and keep your patience and understanding... you'll be in for some rocky times I'm sure. I'm sure there's much good in him if you can help him find it. A teen out of control doesn't really want to be... do you have any idea of what is going on inside? Otherwise... maybe one of these other planets...hmmmmAll good wishes... GG Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Robert F. Smith:I am not a fan of panspermia. There is more than enough ingredients here on earth for life even intelligent life to form and be maintained. Though I wonder if there really is intelligent life here given our actions sometimes.There is no need for aliens in space craft or God(s) to transport it here.LDS theology strongly favors transmission (panspermia) of life to this planet, and science backs that notion in remarkable ways. You might want to consider "How Life Arose On Earth: Researchers Brew Up Organics On Ice," ScienceDaily, Sep. 18, 2012, online at http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120918162220.htm . 3 Link to comment
urroner Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) Urroner...Warning... serious response here...Try and keep your patience and understanding... you'll be in for some rocky times I'm sure. I'm sure there's much good in him if you can help him find it. A teen out of control doesn't really want to be... do you have any idea of what is going on inside?Otherwise... maybe one of these other planets...hmmmmAll good wishes... GGHe doing really well right now. His mother lost control of him because she wouldn't discipline him. She doesn't like conflict. He's always behaved well around me. He is a good boy when expectations have some teeth in them.Thanks for the concern. Edited September 20, 2012 by urroner 2 Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Robert F. Smith:LDS theology strongly favors transmission (panspermia) of life to this planet, and science backs that notion in remarkable ways. You might want to consider "How Life Arose On Earth: Researchers Brew Up Organics On Ice," ScienceDaily, Sep. 18, 2012, online at http://www.scienceda...20918162220.htm .I don't see it in our theology. I believe a better case is to be made that God took the materials he found here and created the physical bodies that inhabit this world. Our spirits? I don't know enough about to say other that what is in our Scriptures .Could some of the organics also come from space? Quite probably. I still don't see how that leads to Panspermia. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I found this fascinating in light of this topic.http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/18/nasa_eagleworks_warp_drive/ Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I don't see it in our theology. I believe a better case is to be made that God took the materials he found here and created the physical bodies that inhabit this world. Our spirits? I don't know enough about to say other that what is in our Scriptures .Could some of the organics also come from space? Quite probably. I still don't see how that leads to Panspermia.It goes without saying that our bodies and those of all living things on this planet are made of ordinary elements, and the sperm and ova from which we all begin are made of those elements, composed of particular molecular structures, and they develop according to a DNA blueprint into the adult form. The Brethren regularly make the point that the Genesis Creation story of making Adam from the dust/dirt or Eve from his rib are figurative statements, and Brother Brigham always maintained that everyone born on earth came about in the same well-known reproductive fashion -- worlds without end.Mormons who think they are creationists miss the point of continuity in Mormonism, as do those who believe in spontaneous generation of life. Protestants and Catholics must have man created by God from the dirt, just as a potter forms a clay pot on a wheel, because they believe in creation from nothing. They have no choice. 1 Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I found this fascinating in light of this topic.http://www.theregist...rks_warp_drive/I think that scifi is fun too. I cut my teeth on it. But we really know so little about the universe and science as yet that we cannot even speculate meaningfully on possible special methods of long-distance transportation in this galaxy or the universe. Take a look at the Book of Abraham to get a hint. We have no idea what gods and angels can do. We don't even know the composition of most of the universe, so we call it dark matter and dark energy. 1 Link to comment
urroner Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Dark matter and dark energy could be our universe's interaction with neighboring universes. Cool stuff. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Robert F. Smith:It goes without saying that our bodies and those of all living things on this planet are made of ordinary elements, and the sperm and ova from which we all begin are made of those elements, composed of particular molecular structures, and they develop according to a DNA blueprint into the adult form. The Brethren regularly make the point that the Genesis Creation story of making Adam from the dust/dirt or Eve from his rib are figurative statements, and Brother Brigham always maintained that everyone born on earth came about in the same well-known reproductive fashion -- worlds without end.Mormons who think they are creationists miss the point of continuity in Mormonism, as do those who believe in spontaneous generation of life. Protestants and Catholics must have man created by God from the dirt, just as a potter forms a clay pot on a wheel, because they believe in creation from nothing. They have no choice.Abiogenesis isn't about spontaneous generation.Actually we're closer to ancient sea water. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Abiogenesis isn't about spontaneous generation.Yes it is. See the "spontaneous generation" section of http://en.wikipedia....iki/Abiogenesis .Actually we're closer to ancient sea water. Yes, the blood in our veins (without the red corpuscles) is virtual seawater. Edited September 25, 2012 by Robert F. Smith Link to comment
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