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Thug Tactics And Constitutional Rights


selek1

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In a Facebook conversation late last week, I was called a fascist and a redneck and had my patriotism, intelligence, and integrity questioned because I supported Chick-Fil-A's freedom of association in the face of scurrilous attacks and accusations of homophobia.

It was implied that I was incapable of independent thought beyond my Mormon religious beliefs, and was accused of being a closet member of the Klu Klux Klan.

Now, it turns out that the entire controversy was a fraud.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/media-invents-story-chik-fil-head-condemned-gay-marriage_648913.html

Ironically, no apologies have been forthcoming- either to myself or to the Cathys.

Chick-Fil-A president Dan Cathy did NOT make "anti-gay" or "homophobic" comments.

He is NOT guilty of discrimination or any sort of law-breaking.

Dan's ONLY crime is living his life and running his company according to traditional Christian values.

He is NOT imposing his views on any one- he is simply living them- and that's apparently unacceptable to a certain class of zealots and ideologues.

The entire controversy was MANUFACTUREDto try and intimidate private citizens into espousing an ideology with which they don't agree.

The same Freedom of Assocation which allows you to pick and choose with whom you do business allows the Cathys the SAME choice.

You don't have to like it. But you DO have to respect it.

This pro-homosexual marriage crowd loves to push this as an issue of Constitutional rights- but this entire controversy was an attempt to punish the Cathys and their corporation for exercising their Constitutional rights of Freedom of Religion, Free Speech, and Freedom of Association.

They were being targeted for thinking differently.

The treatment I received was less intense, but the motive and intention were the same- to intimidate, to coerce, and to silence those who disagree.

This tactic is on the rise- and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is squarely in the cross-hairs.

The demands that the Church be stripped of its tax exempt status is a prime example. It is an attempt to intimidate the Church and the Saints into silence- threatening then with punishment from the State for the crime of thinking differently and espousing views certain people (never a majority) find unpopular.

Torquemada would be proud of those who attempted to coerce Cathy and Chick-Fil-A into compliance.

The Savior said to "Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's."

Unfortunately, my Constitutional rights of Freedom of Thought, Freedom of Worship, Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of Association do not belong to Caesar, neither are they granted me by the State.

These rights are God-given and inalienable.

Attempting to deprive me of them is unrighteous dominion and priestcraft.

How, then, should the Saints (and to a lesser extent, their Church) respond to these attempts at tyranny and Orwellian thought control?

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I'm sorry that happened to you, Selek.

That's one of the reasons I rarely discuss politics on my Facebook page. People (on both sides, really) tend to get out of hand.

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Discrimination is another word we need to take back (along with "gay", "pro-choice", etc.). It is absolutely okay to discriminate between good and evil and right and wrong as Dan Cathy obviously has and it should be expected of all.

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The problem, BC, is that often people have different ideas of what is right and wrong. It's easy to say we should all champion the "right"....much more difficult to come to agreement (as a nation, anyway) over exactly what is right. This is why, although, I believe people have a perfect right to express their opinions, people should not be forced into living someone else's idea of what is right. As long as no one is being hurt, everyone should be able to live the life they believe is best (and "right") for them.

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I'm sorry that happened to you, Selek.

That's one of the reasons I rarely discuss politics on my Facebook page. People (on both sides, really) tend to get out of hand.

I appreciate that.

As a general rule (believe it or not), I try to avoid overt politicking for the same reasons.

Of course, then as now, neither the Cathys nor I chose that particular fight.

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The problem, BC, is that often people have different ideas of what is right and wrong. It's easy to say we should all champion the "right"....much more difficult to come to agreement (as a nation, anyway) over exactly what is right.

Indeed. This is essentially what Natalie Portman said to Hayden Christensen in Episode 2.

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This is why, although, I believe people have a perfect right to express their opinions, people should not be forced into living someone else's idea of what is right.

Can I assume then, that you would likewise object to someone lying and misrepresenting someone in order to punish them for "wrong-thinking"?
As long as no one is being hurt, everyone should be able to live the life they believe is best (and "right") for them.

Remarkably enough, I agree.

People should be left alone to live the life they believe is best. The problem is that too many are not content to be left alone- but instead demand public sanction (approval) and endorsement of their choices.

One of the favored accusations of the "gay rights" crowd is that Mormons and conservatives in general are attempting to "legislate morality" or "impose their religious views".

In my opinion, this is a sin of projection- ironically, it is they who insist in telling us what we are allowed to consider "moral" and who are attempting to force us alter our religious beliefs coincidental to their own.

They also demand that we "get out of their bedroom"- but it is THEY who are demanding public recognition, accomodiation, endorsement, and celebration.

It is THEY, not we- who dragged this into the town square.

The media LIED to the public- willfully and intentionally- to create a backlash against the company for the heinous crime of thinking for themselves.

That is a full order of magnitude different than choosing for yourself which businesses and organizations to support and which to avoid.

When a used car salesman manipulates or omits the facts in order to make a sale, it's called fraud.

When a religious leader (other than Al Sharpton*) manipulates or omits the facts it's called a "cult".

So why is it that when the media does it deliberately to advance a political agenda, it's just "ho-hum, who's on Biggest Loser this week?"

*In Sharpton's case, it's called rioting that's taken at least two lives and left hundreds injured and dozens of businesses destroyed".

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Selek, I don't think I want to get into an in depth discussion on this subject, on this board. Plus, I think it will be considered political?

But, I will say, I just read the article and I don't see how, what CNN or anyone else reported, could be considered a lie. Maybe, the person who wrote this article is seeing something I am not, but what I read, as quoted from Cathy, himself, appeared to be a "condemnation of same sex marriage".

Some have opposed the company’s support of the traditional family. “Well, guilty as charged,” said Cathy when asked about the company’s position. “We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit. …

“We are very much committed to that,” Cathy emphasized. “We intend to stay the course,” he said. “We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles.”

As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't need to apologize for it. That's his view and he is entitled (as long as he is not actively discriminating against gays, in his business dealings).

So, anyway, right off the bat, I think your source is a bit biased and I don't see a lie being perpetuated.

In my opinion, this is a sin of projection- ironically, it is they who insist in telling us what we are allowed to consider "moral" and who are attempting to force us alter our religious beliefs coincidental to their own.

That may be the goal of "some", but not most, in my experience. Most just want equal rights (the right to marry and be recognized as the families that they are...at least, legally/civilly). Most do not want to interfere with the beliefs or practices of the church.

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All of the other name calling (bigot, anti-gay, etc) should be left out of the discussion....but, I know it won't be, by some. I am sorry for that.

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Indeed. This is essentially what Natalie Portman said to Hayden Christensen in Episode 2.

I'm sorry, I have no idea who those people are.. :)

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Toleration has always been a tenant of left wing politics. Of course, what they mean is you can think and be anything you like as long as it is acceptable to our beliefs. It is a farce; has been a farce; and will always be a farce.

Righteousness, holiness are ever the target of the work of Satan and those who he easily influences. Too often we forget that there is a spiritual war that is going on; it is real and the souls of every individual are at stake. It is not surprising that these people, consciously or not, use lies, deceit, misinformation, and propaganda to achieve their goals.

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Storm Rider, there are a lot of lies and deceit coming from both conservative and liberal factions. Politics has become very nasty, in the last couple of decades. Or, I suppose, it always has been, but it seems to be getting worse. Perhaps, it's just the media exposure that makes it appear worse.

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It's a Star Wars reference.

You can be forgiven for not having seen it.

I wish I could be forgiven for having seen it.

Ah!! Well, I did see all of the Star Wars movies (all except one of the last three)...but, it's been awhile. :)

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If I gave money to lighthouse ministries, hardly a soul here would think twice about calling me an anti-mormon.

Yet, when Chik Fil A gives money to anti-gay groups, and groups which oppose gay marriage, it is unconscionable and shredding of the Constitution to suggest that the Cathy's oppose gay marriage.

Here is a statement from Cathy from over a year ago:

"While my family and I believe in the Biblical definition of marriage, we love and respect anyone who disagrees," Cathy added.

Chik Fil A run Winshape Retreat which bars homosexual couples from attending.

So just to be clear as the Mississippi after a rain storm, the Cathy's/Chik Fil A support traditional marriage, but made no oral statement concerning expressing opposition gay marriage (except that they support Biblical Marriage, and "Biblical Marriage" is code for we do not support and are opposed to ssm)........who is speaking Orwellian in this situation.

Selek, it is unfortunate that others you were engaged with could not respect the fact that opinions differ. But I do find your protestations ironic.

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Storm Rider, there are a lot of lies and deceit coming from both conservative and liberal factions. Politics has become very nasty, in the last couple of decades. Or, I suppose, it always has been, but it seems to be getting worse. Perhaps, it's just the media exposure that makes it appear worse.

I don't disagree with that, but what I find most galling is for the Left to claim they are so tolerant, so open and yet so completely hippotcritical. They are only open so long as you agree with them; if you disagree with them you are nearly stoned a la Chick-fi-A.

Media exposure does make it worse.....and it seem that the media often appears run by the Left. I am getting off topic and need to stop talking about the left. Suffice it to say that I agree with you that poiticians are not the most honored or honest people around today.

Would that we could not have parties, but individuals that sought to serve the people of their community, their state, and our nation.

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If I gave money to lighthouse ministries, hardly a soul here would think twice about calling me an anti-mormon.

Yet, when Chik Fil A gives money to anti-gay groups, and groups which oppose gay marriage, it is unconscionable and shredding of the Constitution to suggest that the Cathy's oppose gay marriage.

And here we see classical progressivism in action.

You are applying both a priori reasoning and begging the question.

You are assuming that pro-traditional marriage is de facto anti-gay. This has not been established as a reasonable assumtion, let alone as fact.

It is the classic error of confusing contradiction with persecution. That I disagree with you does not automagically mean that I hate you or wish you ill.

No one here questions whether Cathy opposes "gay marriage". That opposition, however, is perfectly legitimate- however much you may disagree with it. Cathy is, both by your own admission and the Constitution, entitled to his opinion.

Lying about him- and worse, attempting to use the power of the State to punish him for that opinion- is classic censorship and intimidation.

It is no different than a mob henchman vandalizing a business as punishment for refusing to pay the monthly "protection" money.

Moreover, opposing the homosexual agenda does not automagically make one "anti-gay" any more than opposing Obama's agenda makes one "anti-black".

Here is a statement from Cathy from over a year ago:

"While my family and I believe in the Biblical definition of marriage, we love and respect anyone who disagrees," Cathy added.

Chik Fil A run Winshape Retreat which bars homosexual couples from attending.

And NOW refuse to admit male members. Does that (in and of itself) make the NOW group "anti-male"?

There are a number of women-only colleges across the country. Does that make the administrators "anti-men"?

The National Black Caucus and a number of blacks-only fraternities do not admit white members. There has been a recent (and growing) trend toward blacks-only graduations on certain college campuses. Does that make the participants "anti-white"?

The national homosexual softball league refuses to admit heterosexual players. Does that make them "anti-straight"?

Of course not. Just as each of these liberal groups are exercising their freedom of association, so too are Chick-Fil-A and the WinShape group.

The only difference between them is your opposition to their politics.

So just to be clear as the Mississippi after a rain storm, the Cathy's/Chik Fil A support traditional marriage, but made no oral statement concerning expressing opposition gay marriage (except that they support Biblical Marriage, and "Biblical Marriage" is code for we do not support and are opposed to ssm)
None of which justifies the deceitful and hateful attacks on rights and upon their livelihood.

None of which justifies using the power of the State to criminalize and penalize thier beliefs.

Just for the sake of argument, let's assume the Jerry Falwell wing of the politcal spectrum wins sweeping control of the government.

Within hours of being sworn in, President Falwell, Jr. issues executive orders which unilaterially revoke the business licenses of any organization which supports gay marriage.

The press manufactures a series of quotes in which these business owners admit to worshipping Satan, voting Democrat, and prefering mayonaisse over Miracle Whip in an attempt to drive customers from their doorways.

Is this, in your opinion, a legitimate use of the powers of the State and of the Press?

If not, then why is it okay when done to Cathy and Chick-Fil-A?

Selek, it is unfortunate that others you were engaged with could not respect the fact that opinions differ. But I do find your protestations ironic.

Well I wish you'd tell me why.

I have never advocated using the power of the press (let alone of the State) to silence, censor, or criminalize a person's private opinion.

Nor- to the best of my knowledge- have Cathy or Chick-Fil-A.

Right now, it's being done to a private citizen and a private business.

If the precendent is allowed to stand, who then is next?

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