Mormon Stories - General Survey Of Effect

[Matthew J. Tandy]

FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE POLL:

1) True Believer is anyone who believes in the basic foundational story and principles of the church, that is, that the first vision occurred, Moroni appeared, the Priesthood was restored, and that Thomas S. Monson is the prophet today. We will include anyone who believes the Book of Mormon to not be an actual historical record but believe it to be inspired, provided they accept the other aforementioned items.

2) Cultural Mormons are those who don't believe in some or all of the aforementioned items. They either don't attend church but still consider themselves Mormon, or they attend church mainly to be part of the culture, not the belief. Whether or not they have a testimony of Christ is not important to this particular poll, though it is of course important on other levels.

3) PERSONALLY KNOW is someone you know IN PERSON or have known for years online. People on a message board or chat group will generally not count. Try to limit this to family, friends, ward members, etc.

4) Don't obfuscate the meanings. Anyone can nitpick, but the questions and options are clear enough you know what is meant. Answer based on that, not on how you can creatively wrangle them.

This particularly thread is because I have just learned that a person close to me who was "on the edge" in the Gospel of belief versus non-belief and had he/she believed just come back from it recently appears to have found Mormon Stories, attended their recent conference this weekend, and is in the process of "coming out" as a non-believer in large part thanks to Mormon Stories and its "support" group.

I have personally known two other struggling but not gone members who it had the same effect on. This is in the past two or three months.

I have not known anyone personally who has been strengthened or returned from the edge through Mormon Stories.

I have known two or three cultural Mormons who both do and don't attend who have found some comfort in the sense of "I'm not alone" through Mormon Stories. They have become more open about their views, but they are not in the slightest bit strengthened.

As such, in my personal experience, and my personal experience only, Mormon Stories creates a one way bridge out of the church or is neutral, while strengthening the resolve and comfort of those who have left the church or still attend but are no longer believers. This is not a judgment against Mormon Stories, only observations from my own encounters. I have watched many and have neither moved to the right or the left of where I am, but I fall into the "strong" category as well as knowledgeable.

I am curious what other's personal experience has shown.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Matthew J. Tandy

[Libs]

I was wondering how many, who post on this board, are regular listeners of Mormon Stories? I have been..for at least a year.

John Dehlin's personal attitude towards the church, actually did help me soften my own view. Also, through Mormon Stories, I began to re-embrace some spiritual experiences I had in the church...experiences I had with the Book of Mormon that I didn't know how to explain, and was being told by others, were from satan. So, even though Mormon Stories didn't move me back into the church, I would say it did move me more towards the church, than away from..

[Libs]

I don't see any, in those first group of questions, that apply to my situation.

[Duncan]

I have met only one person who has even heard of mormon stories and is indifferent to it as am I

[sunstoned]

I have three friends who listen to Mormon Stores on a regular or semi-regular basis. When I was still working in Provo, we would meet quite regularly for lunch, and often material from Mormon Stories was a discussion topic. At one time all three were active, along with their families. Within the last year and a half two of my friends have become in-active. I don’t know what effect (if any) Mormon Stories had on their decisions and actions.

[Cobalt-70]

For the second question, there ought to be an "I don't personally know any friends, family, etc. who have listened to Mormon Stories" option.

[robuchan]

Mormon Stories is a couple different things.

1. Provides podcasts related to Mormon apologetics which probably leans a little to the critical side, but overall is about as balanced as you'll find. They provide some good stuff, and I've enjoyed quite a few of the podcasts and learned a lot.

2. A community where like minded people go to get emotional support related to losing your testimony, ie staying in Mormonism without a testimony, leaving Mormonism, dealing with a spouse who lost their testimony, etc. I really can't speak to that part of it because I've never had a need for that, and don't seek after that aspect of Mormon Stories.

I discovered Mormon Stories at a time where I had already evolved to the point of no longer believing in Mormonism. So it didn't have any effect on my testimony. Had I discovered it earlier, it probably would have a had a negative effect on my testimony. But nearly all information did: this site, FARMS, and Rough Stone Rolling, so I wouldn't blame Mormon Stories.

John Dehlin comes across a little self important to me. I don't see his role in the world as large as he or some of his supporters do.

[Hamilton Porter]

No effect.

[cwald]

John Dehlin and Mormon Stories convinced me to stay in the church, and gave me a little faith that I can navigate some kind of

"middle way" and make it work....if nothing else to save my family from a lot of pain.

[Tacenda]

John Dehlin and Mormon Stories convinced me to stay in the church, and gave me a little faith that I can navigate some kind of

"middle way" and make it work....if nothing else to save my family from a lot of pain.

I seriously think I'd have ended up in a funny farm without the Mormonstories podcasts. I feel sorry for those that had problems with church history before the internet and didn't have groups like this to support them. How did they cope?!?!

I do appreciate the FAIR project, because they pretty much verify that there are problems and they are there for to help with possible answers. Though it's usually over my head. I have emailed back and forth with a volunteer of FAIR and it was heartening to me that even with all the problems in church history, he still believed. Makes me feel that maybe I never really had a surety of faith.

But I feel there is a need for a place for people that don't have bullet proof testimonies.

I'm hoping as I work through the doubts that I'm having, that family, ward members, friends & neighbors will be able to accept me and my faith crisis.

[Hamilton Porter]

This just in; whatever MoSto's motivations are, whatever its effects are, anti's on Facebook are doing their best to pull Mormons into listening to those podcasts.

[sweetpotatoh]

What's Mormon stories?

[Unicorn]

I wouldn't have considered listening to or reading Mormon Stories prior to my own faith crisis. When I started down a slightly different path, I believed I was the only one in the world who felt like I did. The blessing of Mormon Stories is having a place to feel a sense of belonging when the rest of your world doesn't agree with and understand your new direction, a place where even when others do not agree with you, at least they allow you the freedom to be what you need to be. Mormon Stories helps me to understand better that I do not have to reject all of the good things about being a Mormon while still being true to what my heart and mind tell me.

[Uther]

Mormon Stories have helped me a lot in regards to understanding and feeling more positive towards the LDS church.

The issues and problems are there regardless, and they were not created by MS.

It seems to me that sometimes MS get the blame for the problems, instead of the the understanding of what it actually is; A place to discuss faith related issues in an atmosphere where you can actually speak your mind without being shot down by anti-mormons or monopologists. A place where is is OK to doubt, and you dont have to be drowned out in ANSWERS all the time.

When I first started on the faith journey, I came to FAIR/FARMS and they verified the opposite of what I hoped.. that my fears were true.

Then I went to the anti sites and was turned off by the anger and lack of depth there.

Finding MS was my first light in a valley of darkness.

[robuchan]

This just in; whatever MoSto's motivations are, whatever its effects are, anti's on Facebook are doing their best to pull Mormons into listening to those podcasts.

Anti's would be well served to send traffic to this site as well.

[MMalmgren]

I agree with the statement that MS isn't creating the issues that cause a loss of faith. I had already lost faith when I discovered MS and it was like someone sending me a life raft. It actually helped me to forgive the church and embrace the good that Mormonism has given me.

[HiJolly]

I'd already been dealing with obscure Church-related information for a couple of decades before Mormon Stories, so it had no effect on me. I don't know any of my friends that listen regularly.

I have been listening since (almost) the very beginning. Love most of the interviews. I REALLY appreciate what John has done. The time is past that we can ignore the inconvenient or embarrassing history, and as people become more computer literate, it will just increase.

I've enjoyed expanding out to other podcasts like Mormon Matters.

HiJolly

[Uther]

In my opinion the bottom line is something like this:

There is a difference between what an "average lds members" (like me) have believed and known about the origins and background of our faith, and the version that is documented by early sources, including papers that the church have tried to "protect us" from..

This results in some losing faith and some continuing to believe.

Pick the one that suits you most:

Approaches:

1. Move along, there is no problem,, if you se a problem you are not faithful enough. Solution: Believe harder!
   
2. Move along, there is no problem,, the average members and early church leaders misunderstanding things. Solution: Listen to and believe a set of explanations(Sometimes a vivid imagination can help).
   
3. There might be some small discrepancies, but only because a loving and protecting church leadership that were concerned for the feeble testimonies of many of its members. Solution: Change the diet from milk to meat with a faithful member, and have fath in someone elses testimony.
   
4. There are problems that I dont understand, but I chose to believe, as I have had many strong spiritual experiences while being a member of the church, and I see the good that the church does. Solution: Trust the force, and the force will be with you.
   
5. I can't believe anymore, but I still love the church and its members. Ill keep going for reason "xxxxxxx". Solution: Social participation.
   
6. I can't believe anymore, and I don't want anything to do with the church and its members. Ill keep the problems to myself though, as I respect the faith of other people. Solution: Leave alone.
   
7. I can't believe anymore, and I don't want anything to do with the church and its members. And Ill make sure that everyone knows why I left. Solution: Can't leave the church alone.
   
8. This place sux. Im outta here. Ill start immediately to buy crayons an scissors to make anti posters for the next general conference. Solution: Apiring for outer darkness.
   

[Calm]

including papers that the church have tried to "protect us" from..

Could you identify what papers you see are included in this?

[Storm Rider]

First of all, Mormon Stories is not listened to by the world at large. I have not heard any ratings for this program, but it would be surprising if this had a very large percentage of LDS membership. This poll assumes that we all listen or have listened. In my life it is irrelevant. I don't listen it to it and I don't have any desire to listen to it in the forseeable future. I am a bit perplexed as to why there was a need for the poll on something that affects so few people. It is almost as if someone wants to keep this topic front and center. Would not be the first time something like this has happened and it won't be the last.

[Tacenda]

Could you identify what papers you see are included in this?

He may be referring to any number of papers in the church archives that haven't been published. But there is one I've heard about, in certain forums, that have something to do with David Whitmer. Some say that it is something that is hidden. Maybe someone on MDD might be able to expand on this. I've no idea what it's all about.

[Uther]

Could you identify what papers you see are included in this?

Some of these papers have come to surface due to Tanners/Walters/Marquardt/Quinn/Brodie etc. Many of the papers now well know, was once hidde, and only painfully revealed, after external pressure. Examples of such papers are John Taylors revelation in regards to polygamy, and many journals, diaries, minutes and letters with sensitive information in regards to exactly how things in our early history came about. The Salamander letter was intended for the vault, but JH blew that one.

In my opinion the church is doing a great job now with the JS papers project.

At the same time I feel that we do owe those mentioned above a thanks for making this possible.

[Tacenda]

Some of these papers have come to surface due to Tanners/Walters/Marquardt/Quinn/Brodie etc. Many of the papers now well know, was once hidde, and only painfully revealed, after external pressure. Examples of such papers are John Taylors revelation in regards to polygamy, and many journals, diaries, minutes and letters with sensitive information in regards to exactly how things in our early history came about. The Salamander letter was intended for the vault, but JH blew that one.

In my opinion the church is doing a great job now with the JS papers project.

At the same time I feel that we do owe those mentioned above a thanks for making this possible.

It's terrible the flak the Tanner's got/get. They only publish legitimate documents. I didn't know anything about them until a short while ago. Even when I said their name, my husband reacted like I had said a bad word. They've been given a bad rap. I wish the church would just let the truth come out, members will live with the truth, but not the other way around. I think the JS papers project is just the ticket to let the chips fall where they may.

[KevinG]

How about "not even aware of the existence of Mormon Stories outside of threads devoted to it at MDD" and "Now have more threads to scroll past to get to discussions I'm interested in"

Those would be my answers.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

First of all, Mormon Stories is not listened to by the world at large. I have not heard any ratings for this program, but it would be surprising if this had a very large percentage of LDS membership. This poll assumes that we all listen or have listened. In my life it is irrelevant. I don't listen it to it and I don't have any desire to listen to it in the forseeable future. I am a bit perplexed as to why there was a need for the poll on something that affects so few people. It is almost as if someone wants to keep this topic front and center. Would not be the first time something like this has happened and it won't be the last.

Stormrider, it's pretty simple. I understand that few in/out of the church know what it is, though most here do. My life has however suddenly been negatively impacted by several people close to me who found it on their own, were wavering or were moderate members, and upon not only listening to Mormon Stories but talking to the "fan base" have decided to leave the church or remain for family and cultural reasons while decalring their unbelief.

As it has affected those around me that I love dearly in a negative way (from my perspective), but in the recent series of Dehlin threads about the review against Mormon Stories many people came out crying bloody murder, I thought I would attempt to assess on this very localized board if others have had similar experiences. It appears many have. It helps me to feel less alone.

And that is an improtant topic. Ex-Mormons talk about the pain of leaving the church. I don't want to mitigate that pain, as I recognize it is real. But for those who have lost many friends and family in the last few years and see many more struggling and on their way out, there is an immense sense of sorrow and pain. And we can't share that pain with many of those we love, as they in turn will feel judged that we don't take joy in their change. I don't seek contention with them so generally suffer in silence.