Mormon Dance Champion Benj Schwimmer

[bridget_night]

For any of you who remember lds Benji Schwimmer who won season 2 of “You Think You Can Dance”; he just gave some interesting interviews for a group called Mormon podcasts. It gives good insights what he went through to become a dancer and as to what Mormon youth go through in the lds church. He also shares his struggle with same-sex attraction, reparative therapy, evergreen, and coming out gay. Lacy Schwimmer is his sister who was in season three of “You think you can Dance” and danced with Cher’s son Chaz on Dancing with the stars. Part 3 is on coming out and his sexual orientation. It is so powerful and made me cry.

http://mormonstories.org/350-352-dance- ... schwimmer/

[Matthew J. Tandy]

I offended quite a few Benji lovers in my ward when I pointed out that some of his behavior hinted that he struggled with sexuality (not jsut homosexual). His blog at the time, his appearance on the next season for a quick performance (wherein he pulled his pants down), etc, all indicated that, while a good guy, he wasn't on board spiritually with the Church in his heart, even if he loved and participated in it. It is sad to see I was right. As always with anyone, I wish him the best and much happiness in life.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

21 minutes in to it he says his Bishop told a story to him about one prophet kissing an apostle on the lips, and talking about pure love versus lust. Anyone hear of this? Whether true or not, the situation shared seems to distort it to some degree, but curious if anyone heard this.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

Sorry, that's 21 minutes in to the 3rd video, which is the only one I am taking the time to play in the background while working. These things are way too long for me. 40 minutes into it.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

47 minutes: He gives an emotional positive review of John Dehlin. I am unmoved by his reasoning in terms of linking it to active church members and how important John is. The flipping off, even in "jest", is silly. I get that Mormon Podcasts helped Benji, although a lot of it is theoretical and contradictory considering he just said how he felt better that year. But I get that it can help people in his situation.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

1 hour 8 minutes into it: He totally slams President Monson, church policy etc. He tries to frame it in the context of how he felt at the moment he found out that because he engaged in homosexual activity, the policy was changed in 2010 that he would never be able to serve in callings teaching youth, but he continues on and it's apparent he feels exactly the same way right now. He obviously doesn't understand the difference between administrative functions and forgiveness through Christ, which are two improtant different aspects.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

1 Hour 18 minutes into it: You learn he has a very loose view of God. He has a form of spiritual experience, but then talks about it as, loosely quoting "God, or my true innner self, or heavenly father or heavenly mother, or whatever you want to call it."

1:25:30 - He casts himself in prophetic light because he separates. Lehi, Nephi, Abraham, etc.

Now, there was an interesting thought he conveyed: He felt that God at some point said that he had done enough, shown he was willing to sacrifice, had it appears tried really and genuinely tried to go for the celibate or hetero-married choice, and that it was enough. Which is an interesting view. He gets the impression that he is not meant to be in the church anymore. He resigned from the church on April 27th, 2011. So he feels that the Church in general is true, some prophets like Monson are not inspired, and that he could not progress further in the church and had to leave.

I actually agree in some sense with the general mindset (not the parts about Pres. Monson and prophets not being inspired). Moroni 10 seems to indicate that although the Book of Mormon is true, it might not be in God's wisdom to know that. God cannot save all mankind from strictly in the church. There are inspired people everywhere, helping mankind to be better and lead them closer to him.

1:31:00 - Shows he is agnostic.

1:33:00 - No longer believes the church to be true, but adding in previous few minutes, he holds that God inspires most groups that have followings. I definitely don't agree with how far he takes it.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

1:35:00 - He seems amazed that as soon as he stops focusing on his problems, he looks at others more and tries to help them. I think that is a given, in or out of the church. That is what the church has often said: Lose yourself in service to others.

[katherine the great]

1:35:00 - He seems amazed that as soon as he stops focusing on his problems, he looks at others more and tries to help them. I think that is a given, in or out of the church. That is what the church has often said: Lose yourself in service to others.

It isn't a "given" to most people. It needs to be said over and over and often. Good for him for saying it because we all need reminding.

[Matthew J. Tandy]

Service to others is heavily stressed in lesson manuals and conference. The way he presented his revelation, it was as if the LDS church doesn't actively promote exactly that. I aprpeciate that he had been so self-absorbed in his life and problems (not a bad thing per say) that he forgot to focus on true service. In his situation, he was often asked to perform public service by being a figurehead and speaking and such. I am glad he finally realized that he had been misisng an important part of lifee, but I wish he had framed it in such a way that it did not imply we in the church do not already beleive and teach that.

[Libs]

Service to others is heavily stressed in lesson manuals and conference. The way he presented his revelation, it was as if the LDS church doesn't actively promote exactly that. I aprpeciate that he had been so self-absorbed in his life and problems (not a bad thing per say) that he forgot to focus on true service. In his situation, he was often asked to perform public service by being a figurehead and speaking and such. I am glad he finally realized that he had been misisng an important part of lifee, but I wish he had framed it in such a way that it did not imply we in the church do not already beleive and teach that.

I didn't think that was his intent. I think, because of his situation, he was so busy/distracted trying to "fit into the church" that it really was sucking a lot of his energies that could have gone elsewhere. He did serve a full mission and seemed to have his testimony strengthened by it, so it's not like he had never served in the church. Also, for a whole year, he was prevented from serving in the church, because of the disciplinary measures taken (which he wanted and embraced). Also, have to remember that he is still a very young man, having some very heavy burdens to deal with.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Libs

[Craig Paxton]

1 hour 8 minutes into it: He totally slams President Monson, church policy etc. He tries to frame it in the context of how he felt at the moment he found out that because he engaged in homosexual activity, the policy was changed in 2010 that he would never be able to serve in callings teaching youth, but he continues on and it's apparent he feels exactly the same way right now. He obviously doesn't understand the difference between administrative functions and forgiveness through Christ, which are two improtant different aspects.

Matthew, shame on you and the mocking tone of your posts...you should be ashamed of yourself...how dare you judge Benji Schwimmer or his personal repentance sacrifice or the sincerity and depth of his penitence...who the hell are you to pass judgment on him or the choices he's made in his life. You don't know his personal struggles. You haven't walked even an inch in his shoes, yet you feel so comfortable casting that first stone of pious opinion from your sanctimonious, self righteous, rameumptum...shame on you. You disgust me.

BTW…his so called sin was petting…not homosexual activity…as you so piously stated. Were heterosexuals treated equally, I dare say that there would be less missionaries, Bishops, High Council members or Stake Presidents...as all of these callings require working with youth. It’s a blatant double standard.

This new policy is offensive, hurtful, manmade and unChrist-like. Members of all stripes should rise up and protest this policy…what more can they do to or ask of a repentant soul that they haven’t already done…oh I know... let’s keep their church records marked with a scarlet letter for the rest of their lives. What ever happened to… “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool”…I guess within Mormonism it is no longer the case….well at least with respect to Gays….who’s repented sins will follow them throughout their lives.

The policy is wrong in so many ways least of which is that it suggests that homosexuals are pedophiles and not to be trusted with children…this is just plain BS and not founded in any reality…

I applaude Benji’s rejection of this humiliating, life-time mark…and the church that promotes this hurtful policy...the church does not deserve this good man…I wish him well in life and all the happiness in the world.

My only hope is that you read this post before it is forever wiped from this thread by the moderators…

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Matthew, shame on you and the mocking tone of your posts...you should be ashamed of yourself...how dare you judge Benji Schwimmer or

Troll.

[Libs]

BTW…his so called sin was petting…not homosexual activity…

Thank you for confirming that. That is what I was remembering, as well, but since I kind of skipped around in some of the podcasts, wasn't sure if I had, perhaps, missed something.

[Craig Paxton]

Troll.

Coming from you...I'll wear it as a badge of honor

[Matthew J. Tandy]

Also, for a whole year, he was prevented from serving in the church, because of the disciplinary measures taken (which he wanted and embraced). Also, have to remember that he is still a very young man, having some very heavy burdens to deal with.

My general view, as I stated before, is I wish him luck adn he is still a good person. My view of him now is essentially as he says of himself: he si still trying to figure things out. In his narrative, that was apparent, as he is still trying to figure out how he can reconcile his past and current self into a cohesive narrative from the framework of his still wobbly self identity.

Matthew, shame on you and the mocking tone of your posts...you should be ashamed of yourself...how dare you judge Benji Schwimmer or his personal repentance sacrifice or the sincerity and depth of his penitence...who the hell are you to pass judgment on him or the choices he's made in his life. You don't know his personal struggles. You haven't walked even an inch in his shoes, yet you feel so comfortable casting that first stone of pious opinion from your sanctimonious, self righteous, rameumptum...shame on you. You disgust me.

Craig, Perhaps you are reading far too much into what I wrote. Reread it and you will note I did not condemn him, question his sacrifice (which, in fact, I specifically in other segments brought up as a legitimate question of how mu8ch God expects us to take in our trials before saying it's enough), etc. I did point out that at 1:08:00 he completely ripped President Monson, how he framed the story initially in the context of that's how we was feeling at the moment he found out about the policy change, but that later statements showed he felt the same way (but perhaps in a calmer demeanor). I fail to see how that is judging him harshly. It's what he said. I appreciate you saying I am pious, I suppose that is a compliment. You however are the first person I have known who has ever accused me of casting first stones, sanctimonious, self-righteousness, etc. I am not taking it personally however, as you and I have had good conversations in the past if I recall when others would not engage you on a logical level. I do assume though that you completely misread my post. If I was unclear, I apologize.

BTW…his so called sin was petting…not homosexual activity…as you so piously stated. Were heterosexuals treated equally, I dare say that there would be less missionaries, Bishops, High Council members or Stake Presidents...as all of these callings require working with youth. It’s a blatant double standard.

Petting was an earlier mention. Later in the podcast he alludes to other sins. In his church court he later discusses (which he requested), he discusses how he was very detailed and graphic in what he had done because he wanted it out in the open. I applaud him for that. It is apparent though that more than petting was involved after his initial petting. Which, by and by, is considered homosexual activity, but not homosexual intercourse. Mutual masturbation, for instance, is a sexual activity no matter the genders involved, but it is not intercourse and the church discipline on it is usually different than intercourse. Regarding the double standard, I address that in the other thread on this topic.

This new policy is offensive, hurtful, manmade and unChrist-like. Members of all stripes should rise up and protest this policy…what more can they do to or ask of a repentant soul that they haven’t already done…oh I know... let’s keep their church records marked with a scarlet letter for the rest of their lives. What ever happened to… “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool”…I guess within Mormonism it is no longer the case….well at least with respect to Gays….who’s repented sins will follow them throughout their lives.

The policy is wrong in so many ways least of which is that it suggests that homosexuals are pedophiles and not to be trusted with children…this is just plain BS and not founded in any reality…

I applaud Benji’s rejection of this humiliating, life-time mark…and the church that promotes this hurtful policy...the church does not deserve this good man…I wish him well in life and all the happiness in the world.

My only hope is that you read this post before it is forever wiped from this thread by the moderators…

The policy is not wrong, as explained in the other thread. If you would like to discuss this specific issue, I am happy to discourse with you at It's a good and important discussion Craig, and it does deserve its own thread.

I hope you will consider an apology for jumping rashly to conclusions and misreading my posts. I expect good dialogue is still available.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Matthew J. Tandy

[Craig Paxton]

I hope you will consider an apology for jumping rashly to conclusions and misreading my posts. I expect good dialogue is still available.

Matthew,

I accept your apology and also extend one to you. Purhaps I over reacted...this is a sensitive subject for me...while not gay myself.. I do have many wonderful gay friends whom I admire and love. It pains me to see the intitutional church hold them to a different standard then they do their hetro-members. This new policy is extremely upsetting to me. While I personally am no longer a believer nor a member, many of my gay friend still struggle to maintain belief...this policy can only further hurt these good men who struggle to remain on the inside. I personally believe that it is a misguided policy one designed to further humiliate those seeking forgivness of their so called sins.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Craig Paxton