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A Concern


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I want to make it clear first that this thread isn't about sexual morality nor is it about placing any blame on any person(s).

I attended a funeral this morning for a brother of a friend from high school. The young man, age 17, committed suicide because his parents found out recently that he was gay and wanted to send him to counseling to have him 'cured'. While I have issues with his parents intent, that is not my major concern.

We were at the family's church they attend regularly, non-LDS, and I overheard a conversation in which a woman stated that it was selfish of the young man to commit suicide. She also stated that he probably wanted to not only hurt himself but others around him. I was mortified at the harsh and reductive logic, if it's even worthy to call it that, expressed by this woman.

As I've said before in other posts, every person's experience matters. This woman who so rigidly judged this young man doesn't know what was going on in his mind and his heart. She didn't know of his pleas and petitions to God for help (I found out about this because my friend read his little brothers journal that he kept with his personal Bible).

I'm reminded of the epidemic of teen suicides that infected the month of September in 2010.

In conclusion, any reason for a child of God to commit suicide is one reason too many. No person should be made to feel that they aren't worthy of life. These types of situations should be inspiration for each of us to reach out with compassion and charity and mercy to those who struggle. I do NOT mean that we are to impose religious dogma or religious opinions and teachings to back up what will become an obvious agenda. In fact, that could be much more damaging.

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It is heartbreaking when anyone commits suicide. In my lifetime, I have had three (3) friends take their life. The last one was my office partner a few years ago. None of them were homosexual. One killed himself over a girl, another killed himself because he hated the military, and the last one killed himself over his impending bankruptcy.

In my experience, the reasons for people committing suicide are just as varied as the individual. But the common thread is that they gave up being unable to overcome the issue before them. So what do you do? We mourn for them and try being better aware of the demons people face so we can help them...

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We were at the family's church they attend regularly, non-LDS, and I overheard a conversation in which a woman stated that it was selfish of the young man to commit suicide. She also stated that he probably wanted to not only hurt himself but others around him. I was mortified at the harsh and reductive logic, if it's even worthy to call it that, expressed by this woman.

Ah, but we are taught by Jesus that unless you are willing to forgive in you lies the greater sin. This woman can't forgive the boy for the hurt he caused and because of this she is worse then a suicide and is doubtlessly going to hell. So sad. ;)

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I want to make it clear first that this thread isn't about sexual morality nor is it about placing any blame on any person(s).

I attended a funeral this morning for a brother of a friend from high school. The young man, age 17, committed suicide because his parents found out recently that he was gay and wanted to send him to counseling to have him 'cured'. While I have issues with his parents intent, that is not my major concern.

We were at the family's church they attend regularly, non-LDS, and I overheard a conversation in which a woman stated that it was selfish of the young man to commit suicide. She also stated that he probably wanted to not only hurt himself but others around him. I was mortified at the harsh and reductive logic, if it's even worthy to call it that, expressed by this woman.

As I've said before in other posts, every person's experience matters. This woman who so rigidly judged this young man doesn't know what was going on in his mind and his heart. She didn't know of his pleas and petitions to God for help (I found out about this because my friend read his little brothers journal that he kept with his personal Bible).

I'm reminded of the epidemic of teen suicides that infected the month of September in 2010.

In conclusion, any reason for a child of God to commit suicide is one reason too many. No person should be made to feel that they aren't worthy of life. These types of situations should be inspiration for each of us to reach out with compassion and charity and mercy to those who struggle. I do NOT mean that we are to impose religious dogma or religious opinions and teachings to back up what will become an obvious agenda. In fact, that could be much more damaging.

This is beyond sad, Valentius, and happens far too often, within this group, especially the young ones. :sad:

I very much agree with your conclusion.

I just finished watching a video of "Circle the Wagons" (I think it is a John Dehlin affair) where an LDS woman fairly recently was told, by her son, that he was gay. She was RS President at the time and her husband was in the Stake Presidency. It was shocking and devastating to them. They prayed and fasted for a month and she said they answer they got was "just love him". There is not a human relationship problem that exists that won't be made better with love. She had a lot to say on the subject, as her son had contemplated suicide, as well. Very poignant presentation. They are still active LDS, and talking with/counseling LDS parents with gay children.

Edited by Libs
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The challenge for others is to be able to identify the one that suffers in silence. They are appear quite strong, capable, and even confident. Yet, they do not share what is going on inside; they are the ones who feel alone in a crowd.

The reasons for suicide are as varied and as numerous as there are people. The reasons do not matter; the reality for the individual that suffers is the feeling that there is no way out; there is no solution to their situation. Their burden has become so heavy that they are wholly overwhelmed and they perceive that they are without any solutions. In their minds they have done all they possibly can to extricate themselves to no avail. In their minds God is silent and withdrawn from aiding them in their time of need.

You may notice them pulling away or at least not being "present" when people are in a group. It is not easy; they are depressed, but many still function in society. If you would aid these people, then be prepared to love without cause, to lift the burdens of others, and to talk to those who are silent. Seek out those who are different from you and be not surprised when they reject your overtures of honest friendship and fellowship.

When a suicide does occur among your social group be silent on condemnation, focus on the mercy of our Father in Heaven, and stand by those who are left behind. There are few things that are so painful as to lose a loved one to suicide and never know how acute their pain was; having never known to lift their burdens or to make the effort to help them understand your love for them.

Look for the person that feels alone in the crowd and love them, talk to them, remember them during the week, and reach out to them as often as it takes to make them understand they can continue to take one more step and the lhere is a light at the end of the tunnel.

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This will not be a popular view.

Some individuals indeed have a view to harm their family and friends through committing suicide. Some don't care at all, merely wishing to cease to exist. Yet other motivations may pertain.

Some suicides kill themselves, not in the depths of despair, but on the upward swing - they get mad that they're feeling 'better.' They don't want to get better.

All individuals who commit suicide exercise their own will to kill themselves - I reject the claim "my environment made me do it."

In the end, objectifying / justifying / romanticizing / infantalizing suicides does nothing to prevent suicide - indeed, it may encourage it by implicitly sending the message "It's ok to kill yourself if you are not accepted exactly as you are by all people at all times."

Edited by Log
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log,

Have you looked up what the Church teaches on the matter?

Church Handbook of Instruction Book 2 21.4.14 Suicide

"It is wrong to take a life, including one’s own. However, a person who commits suicide may not be responsible for his or her acts. Only God can judge such a matter."

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This will not be a popular view.

All individuals who commit suicide exercise their own will to kill themselves - I reject the claim "my environment made me do it."

I disagree that all who commit suicide, exercise their own will to do so. While it maybe rare, some are taught, pushed, abused to do so.

It's a pity the woman mentioned in the opening post, didn't just keep her thoughts to herself. It's best for us not to judge. Only God knows a persons heart and mind.

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I want to make it clear first that this thread isn't about sexual morality nor is it about placing any blame on any person(s).

I attended a funeral this morning for a brother of a friend from high school. The young man, age 17, committed suicide because his parents found out recently that he was gay and wanted to send him to counseling to have him 'cured'. While I have issues with his parents intent, that is not my major concern.

We were at the family's church they attend regularly, non-LDS, and I overheard a conversation in which a woman stated that it was selfish of the young man to commit suicide. She also stated that he probably wanted to not only hurt himself but others around him. I was mortified at the harsh and reductive logic, if it's even worthy to call it that, expressed by this woman.

As I've said before in other posts, every person's experience matters. This woman who so rigidly judged this young man doesn't know what was going on in his mind and his heart. She didn't know of his pleas and petitions to God for help (I found out about this because my friend read his little brothers journal that he kept with his personal Bible).

I'm reminded of the epidemic of teen suicides that infected the month of September in 2010.

In conclusion, any reason for a child of God to commit suicide is one reason too many. No person should be made to feel that they aren't worthy of life. These types of situations should be inspiration for each of us to reach out with compassion and charity and mercy to those who struggle. I do NOT mean that we are to impose religious dogma or religious opinions and teachings to back up what will become an obvious agenda. In fact, that could be much more damaging.

Depression can be a very dark place, God is just...but 17; that is so bad for his family. In a perfect world no parent should ever bury a child. The fact that he was here made him "worthy of life".
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log,

Have you looked up what the Church teaches on the matter?

Church Handbook of Instruction Book 2 21.4.14 Suicide

"It is wrong to take a life, including one’s own. However, a person who commits suicide may not be responsible for his or her acts. Only God can judge such a matter."

I hope you'll notice that that in no way, shape, nor form, contradicts anything I said.

I disagree that all who commit suicide, exercise their own will to do so. While it maybe rare, some are taught, pushed, abused to do so.

That does not remove the requirement for the suicide to exercise their own will to kill themselves. The hands, arms, and the rest of the limbs cannot be made to move of their own accord without the active willing of the person just because someone said the right words to him.

It is also contrary to the principle of moral agency to hold someone else responsible for an accountable person's choices.

Edited by Log
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It is also contrary to the principle of moral agency to hold someone else responsible for an accountable person's choices.

Someone should have told Lehi that when he was blessing the children of Laman and Lemuel. Poor guy got it wrong wanting their sins to be upon the heads of their parents.

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Someone should have told Lehi that when he was blessing the children of Laman and Lemuel. Poor guy got it wrong wanting their sins to be upon the heads of their parents.

Any good parent would want their children to be spared pain. I would have endured pain for my children’s mistakes and sadly mine.

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Any good parent would want their children to be spared pain. I would have endured pain for my children’s mistakes and sadly mine.

There is actually little to suggest that Laman and Lemuel were bad parents in a secular sense. When Jacob gives his diatribe against the greed and promiscuity of the Nephites he points out that the Lamanites are doing it right.

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Someone should have told Lehi that when he was blessing the children of Laman and Lemuel. Poor guy got it wrong wanting their sins to be upon the heads of their parents.

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, the specific case of Laman and Lemuel's kids notwithstanding.

Edited by Log
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We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, the specific case of Laman and Lemuel's kids notwithstanding.

And it is not up to us to determine the culpability of the dead or (in most cases) the living. I would rather be lenient then harsh mostly because the Savior said we will be judged by the standards we use to judge others. A very scary thought. If I was in emotional turmoil like this boy was and felt there was no escape would I have done any better? Would I have lost my mental and emotional stability and done something terrible? I don't know.

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