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Ephesians 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Any cometary? We are all aware of the Scripture...and Mormons do not believe we are saved by works. Also this is the Social Hall; no debate.

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Firstly you have to know what the laws/principles and ordinances of the Gospel are. Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Receipt of the Holy Ghost.

Am I saved for my disobience? If I refuse to have faith in Christ will I be saved? If I refuse to repent of my sins will I be saved? If I refuse to be baptized will I be saved? If I refuse the witness of the Holy Ghost will I be saved? If I choose to become like Satan himself will I be saved?

Secondly The devils believe yet tremble.

Edited by thesometimesaint
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would baptism be a work? if a person was of sincere faith would they need to be baptized to attain a place in a or the kingdom of heaven. also repentence, do you have to repent of each sin once you have committed it to be forgiven? the second was a sincere question i do not know the specifics for the mormon faith, thanks!

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OnelovedbyJesus, it is the grace of Jesus that conquers death for us. But he requires things from us in order for us to be saved. Those things are the laws, principles, and ordinances of the gospel.

As sometimessaint said, both faith and works are in there. And, you can't really have faith without works, after all; works is an integral part of it. So I am not so much worried about what I need for salvation. I think if I just do as much as I can, there shouldn't be a problem.

Edited by TAO
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what if all you can do isnt enough? or you arent by chance doing all you can do?

Mmm... doesn't all our ability, come from Jesus Christ? If so, would he bring you down here, on Earth, if you didn't have the capability to choose the actions that you needed to be saved? In my personal opinion, I don't think so. I think everyone on Earth, can be saved, has the capability to be saved, if they choose to follow the path Christ has asked them to. Of course, for some, it will be harder than others. But, as for me, I like a challenge... even when the challenge is over big things. Indeed, it is over big things... I have a ton of things in my way... but... I will overcome them... that I must =).

I don't think chance is going to foil you. I'm a big believer in the concept that you are judged by degree based on your knowledge. So, if you don't know all the laws and ordinances, or don't have a testimony of them, you may not be judged at such a high degree. But for those of us in the know, there are high expectations for us. But there are also great things that can happen if we meet those expectations. I think we all can do it - you, me, all others. We will fail a ton... but that is what Christ's grace, and his forgiveness, is so... precious for. Repentance has gotta be one of the greatest gifts of all =).

Edited by TAO
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Ahhh... the old grace/works debate. I think Joseph Smith made it clear in the articles of faith. "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel." This is very simple. Nothing we can do on our own can merit salvation. It is only faith in Christ, and obedience to Christ's commandments and His ordinances that we enter into the kingdom of God. Notice that it is not the commandments and ordinance of myself or any other man. It is through Christ's Atonement, laws/commandments, and ordinances that we our saved. My works won't save me, but obedience to the works (laws and ordinances) of Christ and his Atonement will. Grace empowers us to be obedient to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel, it provides resurrection without cause on our part, and provides mercy before the judgement seat of God. Christ is our advocate with the Father, and he will provide mercy if we meet his conditions, not our own.

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thanks for the answer, i agree i think that everyone can definitly be saved. to add

Romans 3:20-24 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it — the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

I feel that mabye adding in the neccesity of baptism, repentence and works kind of takes away from the grace and crucifiction of Christ? i feel that mabye since multiple multiple times in the bible it says it is by grace we are saved and not works that mabye thats what it means and there is no catch or extra part to it??

question you can keep it short, what role does repentence play?

my intentions are not to offend if i do let me know, i am just asking questions, learning and sharing. Thanks!

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thanks for the answer, i agree i think that everyone can definitly be saved. to add

Romans 3:20-24 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it — the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

I feel that mabye adding in the neccesity of baptism, repentence and works kind of takes away from the grace and crucifiction of Christ? i feel that mabye since multiple multiple times in the bible it says it is by grace we are saved and not works that mabye thats what it means and there is no catch or extra part to it??

question you can keep it short, what role does repentence play?

my intentions are not to offend if i do let me know, i am just asking questions, learning and sharing. Thanks!

It does take away, if we let it distract us from all Christ did for us. Lucikly, that can be avoided as well. The thing we have to watch out with grace, is that we don't just qualify for salvation immediately with it. Repentance is a good example, of something we need to do to overcome sins, to obtain salvation. In Hebrews 10:26, it says,

26 For if we sin bwilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So, we can't sin after we know the truth, and have recieved his grace. If we do, Hebrews 6:6 says we need to repent:

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and puthim to an open shame.

In other words, when we sin, we need to repent, so we can have access to his grace.

The again, those two verses aren't quite the perfect fit, but, eh, they can do for now XD.

And nah, don't worry about offending! You are not offensive at all, trust me =).

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Only if you see baptism as a work. Baptism is an ordinance that we receive. I like the word "receive," as if baptism is a gift; which it is. While baptism is physical action it is not performed in our name, it is performed in the name of Christ, commissioned by Him.

While repentance is an action, it is also a principle. How can we receive Grace if we are not willing to leave our sins. Repentance means to have a change of heart and mind and to turn away from a past sinful life. Christ does not save us "in" our sins, He saves us "from" them. We must come out from our sins, or there has been no change.

We then separate ourselves from the worldly by entering into covenants with Christ through baptism and reception of the Holy Ghost. And thus we are born again, a second birth. We are born with blood and spirit by water. We are reborn with the Blood of Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Waters of Baptism. Hence a spiritual rebirth.

After which we commit our lives to Christ and His works.

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I feel that mabye adding in the neccesity of baptism, repentence and works kind of takes away from the grace and crucifiction of Christ?

Why? (Please explain your POV)

----

LDS believe that any change that comes upon a person through repentance, baptism and following other commandments of God (what is often called "works" by others is simply following the commandments) only occurs because of the grace of God associated with such things. If repentance comes to us through Grace, if baptism acts upon us through Grace, if our works through Grace help prepare us to accept more fully the Atonement of Our Lord, LDS do not see this as taking anything away from Grace but merely demonstrating in part how His Grace acts upon us.

PS: posting the same post/question in more than one thread makes it look like you are proselyting or spamming the forum and the mods do not look kindly on either. If I were you, I'd just be patient and wait for someone to respond in the first thread and not add the same post to any thread that looks related. It makes it very difficult to follow a conversation if it is spread out over several different threads.

Edited by calmoriah
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When John didn't want to baptize Jesus, the Lord told him it was necessary to "fulfill all righteousness." So, Christians baptize. Re the works issue, we can never do enough. We must, however, try as hard as we can. That just makes sense, considering what the Lord wants to make of us. Just as the Savior had to do all that his father required (including fulfill all prophecy related to his time on earth), we also have to work out our salvation, receiving grace for grace and growing in knowledge of the truth.

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