The Force?

[wenglund]

Well we would not call this impersonal force "God",

I might call it "God", particularly if that impersonal force is "light" (1 Jn 1:5) and "love" (1 Jn 4:8).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[The Nehor]

Maybe you're thinking of Einstein?

Quotes have been produced to show that he was a Pantheist, an Atheist, and a Theist.

Maybe he was one of these deceptive Pantheists you're talking about (who just kept switching back and forth depending on circumstances), or maybe he genuinely believed that the universe he saw was too complicated to be explained by any one theory.

No, I'm thinking of most pagans and vaguely spiritual people I know. Their god doensn't make any demands or set rules and will never get in the way of what they want to do. At the same time when they are happy or comtemplative they imagine there is 'something' more to life while never bothering to define what that 'something' might be. I imagine there are honest believers in pantheism but most everyone I know who subscribes to it is living a dual-life. Accepting the existence of God and submission to Him takes effort and work. Living up to the philosophical conclusions of atheism takes discipline in thought. They muddle about in the middle wanting the best of two inconsistent worldviews.

Then again it is possible I am just a judgmental git so take this with a grain of salt.

[inquiringmind]

I might call it "God", particularly if that impersonal force is "light" (1 Jn 1:5) and "love" (1 Jn 4:8).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Thank you.

[Robert F. Smith]

If the personal God of the Bible and the Book of Mormon isn't the cause of everything (Matter, Law, energy, Spirit, Intelligence) could there be some impersonal cause?

Star Wars popularized the phrase "may The Force be with you," but could there actually be some truth to some of the ideas behind that phrase?

Could there be some fundamental subconscious force (Spirit, Intelligence, or The Light of Truth?) behind matter, energy, biological life, and any conscious God/Gods ?

I don't know whether it would answer your question, but you might want to read Benjamin Urrutia's review articles "The Force That Can be Explained is Not the True Force," and "The Dark Side of the Force," in LDSF 2 (1985), online at http://www.parablespub.com/ldsf2.html .

[Robert F. Smith]

Quote

For Jung, “My thesis then, is as follows: in addition to our immediate consciousness, which is of a thoroughly personal nature and which we believe to be the only empirical psyche (even if we tack on the personal unconscious as an appendix), there exists a second psychic system of a collective, universal, and impersonal nature which is identical in all individuals. This collective unconscious does not develop individually but is inherited. It consists of pre-existent forms, the archetypes, which can only become conscious secondarily and which give definite form to certain psychic contents.”

It is not "collective subconscious", but "collective unconscious".

Plus it was not necessarily something like a "hive mind" that links everyone, but may simply be an inherited characteristic depending on how one chooses to interpret Jung.

The late Joseph Campbell spent a lifetime demonstrating in beautifully illustrated books and lectures that Jung's notion of the collective unconscious and of the archetypes was true. Who needs diffusion when we all participate in something like the "force"? How else to explain the commonality of the human race in such widely separated areas? Otherwise we might have to believe in expeditions across the vast oceans since time immemorial. And where would that lead?

[guitarist]

Hi, newly registered, but been a lurker for a little while.

In relation to this topic, I've often wondered if the Priesthood/faith wasn't something vaguely similar to this. We often hear in church that the Priesthood is the "authority" of God given to man, but we never really hear what the actual mechanics behind it are. Could it be an unseen "force"? Coupled with doubtless faith & righteous desires, we theoretically can do anything with the priesthood that one could do with Star Wars' force.

[mfbukowski]

The late Joseph Campbell spent a lifetime demonstrating in beautifully illustrated books and lectures that Jung's notion of the collective unconscious and of the archetypes was true. Who needs diffusion when we all participate in something like the "force"? How else to explain the commonality of the human race in such widely separated areas? Otherwise we might have to believe in expeditions across the vast oceans since time immemorial. And where would that lead?

There you go again, getting it right on the money!

[DarkScythe]

i have meta theory that involves all of the galaxies, comisc web and the force. It is overly complex.

[inquiringmind]

I might call it "God", particularly if that impersonal force is "light" (1 Jn 1:5) and "love" (1 Jn 4:8).

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Thank you again Mr. Englund.

What do you think of this?

The

demiurge

is a concept from the Platonic, Neopythagorean, Middle Platonic, and Neoplatonic schools of philosophy for

an artisan-like figure

responsible for the fashioning and maintenance of the

physical universe

...Although

a fashioner

,

the demiurge is not quite the creator figure in the familiar

monotheistic sense

,

because both the demiurge itself plus the material from which the demiurge fashions the universe are considered either uncreated and eternal

,

or the product of some other being

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

Could these Platonists have been close to the truth here?

Edited February 26, 2012 by inquiringmind

[mfbukowski]

Thank you again Mr. Englund.

What do you think of this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

Could these Platonists have been close to the truth here?

You see demigods in almost all mythology. One of the closest to ours is that of the Zoroastrians, an ancient Persian religion. http://en.wikipedia..../Zoroastrianism

They are remarkably close, including prophecies about a savior- in fact, the magi (Three Kings) who visited Jesus in our bible story were probably Zoroastrian astrologers. (imo)

The Parsis of India are their religious descendents - they worship light and fire, by extension, in my opinion, this could be the "force" we call the Light of Christ symbolized by the sun and fire. They are endowed with a "sacred string" they wear under their clothing, which represents covenants they make with God.

Many of our stylized sun symbols that we find in temples were also used by Zoroastrians for the sun.

It is my personal opinion that it is likely these folks are the spiritual descendants of a genuine dispensation which might have happened around the time of the loss of the ten tribes. The date range for the supposed existence of the person Zoroaster varies widely- he has become almost a legendary figure, and the 600 BC or so date is not out of the question.

The religion states that active participation in life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. This active participation is a central element in Zoroaster's concept of free will, and Zoroastrianism rejects all forms of monasticism. Ahura Mazda will ultimately prevail over the evil Angra Mainyu or Ahriman, at which point the universe will undergo a cosmic renovation and time will end. In the final renovation, all of creation—even the souls of the dead that were initially banished to "darkness"—will be reunited in Ahura Mazda, returning to life in the undead form. At the end of time, a savior-figure (a Saoshyant) will bring about a final renovation of the world (frasho.kereti), in which the dead will be revived.^[6]

In Zoroastrian tradition, the malevolent is represented by Angra Mainyu (also referred to as "Ahriman"), the "Destructive Principle", while the benevolent is represented through Ahura Mazda's Spenta Mainyu, the instrument or "Bounteous Principle" of the act of creation. It is through Spenta Mainyu that transcendental Ahura Mazda is immanent in humankind, and through which the Creator interacts with the world. According to Zoroastrian cosmology, in articulating the Ahuna Vairya formula, Ahura Mazda made His ultimate triumph evident to Angra Mainyu. As expressions and aspects of Creation, Ahura Mazda emanated the Amesha Spentas ("Bounteous Immortals"), that are each the hypostasis and representative of one aspect of that Creation. These Amesha Spenta are in turn assisted by a league of lesser principles, the Yazatas, each "Worthy of Worship" and each again a hypostasis of a moral or physical aspect of creation.

Edited February 27, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Smith]

Mr. T or Yoda?

Chuck Norris!

[Smith]

Delete

Edited February 27, 2012 by Smith