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Latest Fiji Crackdown


Pahoran

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http://www.newstalkz...-military-power

Evidently the latest crackdown means that any meeting of three or more people -- even in a private home -- requires a police permit. Peter Williams QC, an eminent New Zealand barrister, does a lot of work in Fiji, and was interviewed on the radio this morning.

"The Methodist Church, which is the big church over there is empty, the people who control the churches don't know what to do. They don't want to have a direct confrontation with the Commodore," he told Newstalk ZB's Larry Williams.

So not only Church meetings, but presumably home teaching visits would also be regulated by the junta.

Regards,

Pahoran

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Nobody works in Fiji. All they do is lounge around on the beach all day eating coconuts and drinking coconut milk. Revolution at the palace? Meh.

I can only assume that was meant to be humorous in some way. Fijians, who are just as hard-working as everyone else, might find it offensive, though.

Regards,

Pahoran

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See the smiley? Meant to be humorous. If someone else is offended, oh well.

Not to be a pedant, but I've always seen a wide difference between laughing at ourselves and poking fun at others. Apart from the fact that your humour relies upon an inaccurate stereotype of Pacific Islanders, the fact is that the people of Fiji are having a hard time right now, so making jokes at their expense might possibly be deferred to a later time.

But whether or not you or anyone else thinks they work, the fact is that they tend to be devout, church-going people, and this crackdown is going to have a deleterious effect upon that. Which is really more relevant to the topic of this thread; just IMHO, of course.

Regards,

Pahoran

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Not to be a pedant, but I've always seen a wide difference between laughing at ourselves and poking fun at others.

When Fiji is mentioned, I think most people think of themselves and Fijians lounging around on the beach without a care in the world.

Apart from the fact that your humour relies upon an inaccurate stereotype of Pacific Islanders, the fact is that the people of Fiji are having a hard time right now, so making jokes at their expense might possibly be deferred to a later time.

I invoked no stereotypes that anyone should feel insulted by and imho. This would be a most appropriate time for humor and if you mistake it for something else as you appear to be doing, I don't feel obligated to explain it to you. The smiley should have been enough.

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Does anybody actually want to discuss the impact this kind of draconian measure has upon the freedom to assemble and worship, both for Latter-day Saints and others?

Regards,

Pahoran

Yes. It sucks.

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Does anybody actually want to discuss the impact this kind of draconian measure has upon the freedom to assemble and worship, both for Latter-day Saints and others?

Regards,

Pahoran

Does the rule apply to family members living under the same roof?

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Yes. It sucks.

:rofl:

And that sums it up nicely.

Perhaps the most worrisome thing about this is that the so-called "Public Order" decrees are not subject to judicial review, and neither is any action taken by the police -- or by the military, who are now invested with police powers -- under those decrees. IOW, it amounts to a complete suspension of the rule of law.

So what should Church members be doing in these circumstances? Obeying the decrees? Openly disobeying them? Tacitly ignoring them?

Regards,

Pahoran

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Does the rule apply to family members living under the same roof?

From what I've heard discussed, it only actually applies to people entering a home (or other location) and meeting together. The Fijian authorities can't possibly expect to police every family in the whole country. Indeed, given the importance of tourism to their economy, they can't seriously expect to regulate hotels or restaurants, either.

My view is that the purpose of these decrees is to enable the regime to come down hard on its political opponents. I expect that they will enforce only as it suits them, rather than risk alienating the entire population by making their lives miserable.

Regards,

Pahoran

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Pahoran,

I'll have to admit my ignorance of what has been going on there. I'm sure this is much bigger news in New Zealand than in the U.S.

How long has it been this way? Do you have any contact with people there?

To me, this is a yet another reminder of how fortunate my life has been. I really know nothing of true trials.

Thanks.

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I invoked no stereotypes that anyone should feel insulted by and imho. This would be a most appropriate time for humor and if you mistake it for something else as you appear to be doing, I don't feel obligated to explain it to you. The smiley should have been enough.

Gee whiz, BC, just because you put a smiley up doesn't excuse and inappropriate attempt at humor. I thought it was a stereotype as well and not at all appropriate to the situation.

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From what I've heard discussed, it only actually applies to people entering a home (or other location) and meeting together. The Fijian authorities can't possibly expect to police every family in the whole country. Indeed, given the importance of tourism to their economy, they can't seriously expect to regulate hotels or restaurants, either.

My view is that the purpose of these decrees is to enable the regime to come down hard on its political opponents. I expect that they will enforce only as it suits them, rather than risk alienating the entire population by making their lives miserable.

Regards,

Pahoran

I would have been extremely surprised if they could monitor most meetings. I was just curious as to the theoretical implications of the law.

I guess people could find ways to meet together, but fear is a powerful deterent.

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:rofl:

And that sums it up nicely.

Perhaps the most worrisome thing about this is that the so-called "Public Order" decrees are not subject to judicial review, and neither is any action taken by the police -- or by the military, who are now invested with police powers -- under those decrees. IOW, it amounts to a complete suspension of the rule of law.

So what should Church members be doing in these circumstances? Obeying the decrees? Openly disobeying them? Tacitly ignoring them?

Regards,

Pahoran

Didn't realize that Fiji was into a nanny state. This is shocking to me. I think church members should disregard it. Then try to bring up lawsuits. I am not very familiar with the laws of Fiji, but in the US this tactic works great esp among the left.

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I doubt if Fiji is as safe to bring lawsuits against the government and military as it is in the US. They appear to have a history of coups with heavy military involvement in the government. As far as I can tell from Wiki, it appears they don't have a working constitution at the moment either.

add-on:

http://en.wikipedia...._rights_in_Fiji

“Fiji remains a military dictatorship that denies its citizens the right to take part in self-government through free and fair elections, as well as the freedoms of speech, press, assembly, and religion. Since the December 5, 2006 coup d'état, the military and police have arbitrarily arrested and detained human rights defenders, journalists and others perceived as critical of the administration. Four people have died in military or police custody and dozens of people have been intimidated, beaten, sexually assaulted, or subjected to degrading treatment. Fiji's interim administration continues to fail to uphold the rule of law and has seriously compromised the independence of the judiciary. No UN special procedures have visited since the 2006 coup. A visit by the UN Special Rapporteur on the independence of judges and lawyers is pending, though the Fiji government has failed to advise a suitable time for this visit. The government has not responded to the request to visit of the Special Rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”[3]

Areas of key concern

  1. Equality and non-discrimination
  2. Freedom of religion or belief, expression, association and peaceful assembly, and right to participate in public and political life
  3. Right to life, liberty and security of the person
  4. Administration of justice, including impunity, and the rule of law
  5. Right to marriage and family life
  6. Freedom of movement
  7. Right to work and to just and favourable conditions of work
  8. Right to education
  9. Rights of Minorities and indigenous peoples

The quote above is from Aug 2009, so I don't know how accurate it is (it is from wiki so it must be the truth, right? ;) ). Looks like they will have a new constitution next year if it goes as planned.
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Didn't realize that Fiji was into a nanny state. This is shocking to me. I think church members should disregard it. Then try to bring up lawsuits. I am not very familiar with the laws of Fiji, but in the US this tactic works great esp among the left.

The "Public Order" decrees apparently include a provision that actions taken by the police, or by the military exercising police powers (itself an ominous development) are not subject to judicial oversight. IOW, citizens have no recourse to the courts against the police.

The military junta has abandoned any pretense of governing via the rule of law.

Regards,

Pahoran

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