Openly-Gay Presidential Candidate Launches Anti-Mormon Website

[Sky]

I was pleasantly surprised to see some backlash against Karger from the LA Times and even the gay community itself.

[Pahoran]

I was pleasantly surprised to see some backlash against Karger from the LA Times and even the gay community itself.

Tut, tut. Remember, Sky, that whatever that bozo says about us, we deserve it. We deserve it for whatever we did (and didn't do) regarding Prop 8. We deserve it for whatever we do or don't do or say regarding any other of his favourite causes. And if nothing else, we deserve it for being Mormons (ugh!)

Regards,

Pahoran

[juliann]

I understand the rancor against Prop 8 supporters, but I don't understand the bigotry. And we know it is bigotry whenever they single Mormons out from the other groups who supported it. Like Catholics, EVs and African-American churches. With his logic, he needs to go after all the candidates with ties to those religions, including Obama.

[Pahoran]

I understand the rancor against Prop 8 supporters, but I don't understand the bigotry. And we know it is bigotry whenever they single Mormons out from the other groups who supported it. Like Catholics, EVs and African-American churches. With his logic, he needs to go after all the candidates with ties to those religions, including Obama.

But Juliann; Obama (or should it be O'Bama; I hear he's part Irish) isn't a Mormon.

Therefore, he doesn't deserve it.

See how simple it is? There's no need for moral consistency when bigotry answers all the questions for you.

The most useful thing to know about Karger isn't that he's "gay" or a Prop 8 opponent; there's no reason to suppose that principled people cannot be either or both of those things. The most useful fact is that he is a former tobacco lobbyist who is completely unrepentant about his misdeeds; that, you see, is where he learned the dirty tricks he is using against the Church of Jesus Christ now.

Regards,

Pahoran

[california boy]

I understand the rancor against Prop 8 supporters, but I don't understand the bigotry. And we know it is bigotry whenever they single Mormons out from the other groups who supported it. Like Catholics, EVs and African-American churches. With his logic, he needs to go after all the candidates with ties to those religions, including Obama.

Juliann, do you really don't know the siginificant role the churhc played in passing prop 8 that was unlike anything the Catholic, ev's and African-American churches did? If not, I might suggest you do a little research on the churches role. I think you will find that there is a reason why prop 8 is often referred to as "the Mormon Proposition". It has nothing to do with the chuches unique beliefs despite what some Mormons like to cry.

Some people have not been able to get over it. but that doesn't justify putting up an anti-Mormon website that has nothing to do with prop 8.

[thesometimesaint]

california boy:

LDS make up a very small percentage population of california. The fact is that If the politically active homosexual community wanted to it could very quickly overwhelm any polical activity of the LDS. The anti8 crowd outspent the pro8 side. The anti8 campaign failed at the ballot box.

I sure didn't see the anti8 mobs rioting in south central against AME.

[Wants2know]

Obviously this guy has an axe to grind. The site he made is ridiculous. Sky - did I read your post right? That you were glad to see backlash against the gay community itself? Why? What have you got against the gay community? You make yourself no better than the buffoon who made that website with such an attitude… or axe.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Juliann, do you really don't know the siginificant role the churhc played in passing prop 8 that was unlike anything the Catholic, ev's and African-American churches did? If not, I might suggest you do a little research on the churches role. I think you will find that there is a reason why prop 8 is often referred to as "the Mormon Proposition". It has nothing to do with the chuches unique beliefs despite what some Mormons like to cry.

Some people have not been able to get over it. but that doesn't justify putting up an anti-Mormon website that has nothing to do with prop 8.

So we were vocal in our beliefs...this justifies the attacks?

[Jaybear]

Some people have not been able to get over it. but that doesn't justify putting up an anti-Mormon website that has nothing to do with prop 8.

CB's comment provokes PaPa to say:

So we were vocal in our beliefs...this justifies the attacks?

PaPa how can you possible expect to have a civil discussion when you imply that CB said precisely the opposite of what he actually said?

[Jaybear]

california boy:

LDS make up a very small percentage population of california. The fact is that If the politically active homosexual community wanted to it could very quickly overwhelm any polical activity of the LDS. The anti8 crowd outspent the pro8 side. The anti8 campaign failed at the ballot box.

I sure didn't see the anti8 mobs rioting in south central against AME.

Why would they do that? You are spitting out facts, and then offering a conclusion that has not only has no relationship to the facts, but flies in the face of logic and reality.

You need to face the facts. The LDS Church chose to lead the war against gay marriage, and in fact won the Prop 8 battle. Congratulations. You figured out that Americans respond to lies and fear mongering at the ballot box.

The backlash that followed the victory was entirely predictable. Please don't pretend not to understand why the backlash was directed against Mormons, and not for example, Catholics ... who as a group voted against Prop 8, or blacks who didn't put any money or time into the battle.

Then again, these complaints about the backlash are also predictable. I get it. You poke your brother, and when he calls you name, you go crying to mommy. Personally, I hate those kind of kids, but sometimes crying works. So cry away.

BTW, for those who like to spew hyperbolic rhetoric, rather than engage in reasoned discussion, please note the word I used was "predictable" not "justified."

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

PaPa how can you possible expect to have a civil discussion when you imply that CB said precisely the opposite of what he actually said?

I was speaking of the whole history of the event and fallout, I was not accusing him of doing anything such as this.

[Zeta-Flux]

You need to face the facts. The LDS Church chose to lead the war against gay marriage, and in fact won the Prop 8 battle. Congratulations. You figured out that Americans respond to lies and fear mongering at the ballot box.

In what way did the LDS Church lead the war against gay marriage? I still have not seen a concrete fact (which I'm supposed to face) that justifies that rhetoric. The church itself was almost a non-participant, donating only a small inkind donation. The members of the church made up only a small minority of the proponents. They did not seem to be in the leadership positions. They contributed fewer hours than the others.

In what way were they the leading the "war"?

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

Yep. We sure did/do go around to random strangers houses', invade their homes, and tear up their marriage certificates.. That my friend is a damnable lie.

Further if words have meanings then there is good reason to stick with that meaning. Marriage from time immemorial has had just one meaning the legal joining of men to women.

So I'm supposed to feel sorry for a violent mob attacking places of worship because of a lost election on a purely secular issue?

[seriously honestly]

Obviously this guy has an axe to grind. The site he made is ridiculous. Sky - did I read your post right? That you were glad to see backlash against the gay community itself? Why? What have you got against the gay community? You make yourself no better than the buffoon who made that website with such an attitude… or axe.

I read it as she's "pleasantly surprised to see some backlash against Karger from":

1. the LA Times

2. the gay-community

[Jaybear]

In what way did the LDS Church lead the war against gay marriage?

Seriously? Lets go back to 1997 in Hawaii:

:

[Zeta-Flux]

Jaybear,

I repeat. In what way did the church lead the war?

Are you talking temporally? That we were on the scenes from the beginning? Otherwise, I'm not sure I grasped what point you were trying to make with that partial-letter.

[california boy]

california boy:

LDS make up a very small percentage population of california. The fact is that If the politically active homosexual community wanted to it could very quickly overwhelm any polical activity of the LDS. The anti8 crowd outspent the pro8 side. The anti8 campaign failed at the ballot box.

I sure didn't see the anti8 mobs rioting in south central against AME.

I have never stated or implied that the LDS church didn't have a right to do what they choose to do. In fact I have stated REPEATEDLY that the church has every right to be politically active if it so chooses.

Is all I am saying is that what the church did is NOT exactly the same as the other churches Juliann mentioned. Hence, the backlash is not the same for the other churches. To imply that the those supporting equality for the gay community in their pursuit of equality has targeted the Mormon church randomly because of some disregard for their beliefs is to completely deny the exact political activism that you point out the church participated in.

Being actively involved in politics does not make one immune to criticism. Just ask any of the presidential candidates. ANY group that gets actively involved in any political issue to the point where they are financing over half of the campaign and 70% of the volunteer effort will OBVIOUSLY be singled out as the opponent against their cause. How many threads to we have to have on this subject for Mormons to understand this simple political concept that goes on in virtually every political campaign in this country.

And yes we already know that a very small minority of those that support marriage equality lashed out against the church in a inappropriate manor. The vast majority of those that support equality are just ticked off at the church and did not do anything malicious. Just like the vast majority of Mormons do not do anything malicious against those supporting gay marriage.

[Jaybear]

Jaybear:

Yep. We sure did/do go around to random strangers houses', invade their homes, and tear up their marriage certificates.. That my friend is a damnable lie.

???? How does criticizing the imagery presented in someone else's ad, rebut the claim that prop 8 sponsored ads were misleading and appeal to fear?

I don't understand your logic here.

Further if words have meanings then there is good reason to stick with that meaning. Marriage from time immemorial has had just one meaning the legal joining of men to women.

How about that? A liberal making an appeal to tradition as if it were a real argument.

So I'm supposed to feel sorry for a violent mob attacking places of worship because of a lost election on a purely secular issue?

Purely secular issue? Do you really, honestly, think that the attack on gay marriage in Ca, spearheaded by Catholics, Evangelicals and Mormons is purely a secular issues?

[california boy]

Jaybear: Yep. We sure did/do go around to random strangers houses', invade their homes, and tear up their marriage certificates.. That my friend is a damnable lie. Further if words have meanings then there is good reason to stick with that meaning. Marriage from time immemorial has had just one meaning the legal joining of men to women. So I'm supposed to feel sorry for a violent mob attacking places of worship because of a lost election on a purely secular issue?

Predictable.

[Zeta-Flux]

Is all I am saying is that what the church did is NOT exactly the same as the other churches Juliann mentioned.

What specifically did the church and/or its members do differently?

[Jaybear]

What specifically did the church and/or its members do differently?

Seriously?

[california boy]

What specifically did the church and/or its members do differently?

Zeta, you already know the answer to that question. Why ask as if you have no idea what I am talking about.

[Zeta-Flux]

Predictable.

I think his point was that it is a bit hypocritical to accuse the opposition of using ads which are inaccurate when they themselves do so.

[Zeta-Flux]

LOL!!! Yes, I am serious. I honestly have no idea what you guys think our church and/or its members did differently than the other churches and groups involved in passing Proposition 8 and/or the "war" on gay marriage.

[california boy]

LOL!!! Yes, I am serious. I honestly have no idea what you guys think our church and/or its members did differently than the other churches and groups involved in passing Proposition 8 and/or the "war" on gay marriage.

Rather than answer a question that has been answered numerous times, why don't you tell us what YOU THINK the church did that was different than ALL the other churches.