Popular Post Mudcat Posted October 31, 2011 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2011 A very close friend of ours, passed away earlier this week. She had been battling with cancer for about a year. She graduated with my wife from HS and they were close friends. Our late friends oldest daughter is 4 and takes ballet from my wife, the youngest daughter of 2 will likely enroll next year.In early Summer we helped put on a fundraiser to help her pay for experimental medication, because insurance would not cover it. We managed to raise 35K for her and the "gamma knife" and new chemo seemed to be working surprisingly well. We found a bit of hope for her, when we thought hope was lost. But mid-week last week the doctors took her off the chemo because is was killing her. The had a new strategy, but she collapsed Friday evening and they could not bring her back. She wanted to live for her kids and her husbands sake. She was a brave fighter.. for sure.The community knew her well, she was an elementary teacher and many showed up at the funeral home to pay their respects to the family. It took us 3 hours to make it through the line.Immediately in front of us was a young pastor and ahead of him were some good friends of my father (EVs). We had been making our way through the line for about an hour and a half, making what small talk we could given the circumstances. My fathers friends started talking about something funny my dad did when they all took a trip to the Holy land together. He is a character/prankster/life of the party kind of guy... they were all eating in a restaurant by the Sea of Galilee when a number of the trip goers saw some fellow swimming in the Sea of Galilee... It was really cold and they were talking about what a nut that guy must be, until they realized my dad wasn't with their party and was the guy in water. lol...The young pastor (Brother X) had been to the Holy land as well and chimed into the conversation with us. He then started talking about different locations he had visited and made special note that there were some places where the Catholics noted were where things happened to Christ and that this was a difference from where the Christians believed they occurred. Well, one of dad's friends remarked to that incendiary comment, that they didn't know Catholics weren't Christians.Behind us by a few a people was a wonderful Catholic couple we know and he was speaking loudly enough for them to hear.Brother X replied something to the effect. "Oh yes, they are no different than the Mormons, they follow the Pope rather than the Bible in the same way the Mormons follow JS."I was beyond angry with his words.My father's friends shot me a side long glance to us at this comment, they know my wife well, know her beliefs and knew it was hurtful to her.Immediately, before the fellow could continue, I said calmly. "Brother X can I have a word with you for a moment."By the look of his face, he knew something was amiss and said. "Yes."We stepped aside from the line and I put my arm around him and spoke to his ear. "Bother X, I want you to know that a few couples behind me is a wonderful Catholic couple who would likely find your comments about the status of their Christianity quite hurtful at such a time."He whispered back, "Oh, I understand."I replied, "No there is more to it. My wife who stands with me is a Mormon, she is one of the closest friends the deceased had. They went to school together all their lives and maintained their friendship to the end. To have you berate her Christianity is beyond offense to me. I disagree with you on your statements about Catholics and Mormons, but this isn't the place or time for such a debate any more than you choosing a hallway in funeral for a pulpit for you misguided views was."**********I continued, "I have never been a man prone to force, but you are not worthy to be in the presence of my wife. I suggest you find a way to remedy the situation before I feel led to do so." (At least that is the G rated "forum friendly" version of my closing statement )I released my embrace (quite a tight one I imagine, I was to stirred up to notice) and stepped back in line.Brother X commented that he needed to find the restroom and left.. though he took a place at the rear of the line afterwards.I am thankful my wife somehow missed the comment while dealing with her own grief. I had hoped the Catholics had missed it, as well. But the husband, a bud of mine, sent me a text later that evening "Tks man."I suppose I could go on about how tacky, wrong and so forth the young pastor was. It just sucks when somebody who claims the same religion you have acts like doof wad.Despite my agreement with EV doctrine, I am continually disappointed with the lack of ecumenism and the polarization against other Christians of many of the outspoken members. It is this sort of thing that causes such friction between fellow believers in Christ and IMO it is totally unnecessary.I just wanted to get that off my chest. MD&D SH is where I usually vent, when I need to. Thanks.Regards,Mudcat 21 Link to comment
DispensatorMysteriorum Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 If this were facebook, I would "like" your story. You are a good man--even if you're not a true Christian like us Mormons 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) You can give the man a rep point though, see lower right side of his post, above the sig line. I would, but maxed out my quota already. Click on the arrow button. Edited October 31, 2011 by calmoriah Link to comment
Anijen Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Mudcat, I have had trouble most my life hastily saying just exactly what I have felt when at times for peace and avoiding contention I should have bit my own tongue. Your response is one I could see myself doing and agreeing with. Thanks for doing so. 1 Link to comment
Libs Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Yay for you, Mudcat! Sounds like you handled it very graciously (but firmly). Nice going!Edit: And condolences to you and your wife for the loss of a dear friend. That is so sad that she had such young children. Hard to understand why God would take her, y/k? Edited October 31, 2011 by Libs 2 Link to comment
Garden Girl Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Mudcat...You're a good man, and a dear brother in Christ. I think you did that young pastor a favor... maybe he'll think twice in the future.GG 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Storm Rider Posted October 31, 2011 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2011 We all at different times in our life have said foolish things. I feel sorry for this minister/preacher and I appreciate the private way in which you handled the situation. Until every group is able to recognize a Chrisitian by the love and devotion demonstrated toward the Savior rather than doctrines they believe around Jesus, things will not change. We will have zealots that forget to love and demand a uniform doctrinal system. Doctrine has become more important than the Savior himself. Sad. 5 Link to comment
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I think you handled it well. I might have started with a smack down; WWW style. Edited October 31, 2011 by Bill “Papa” Lee Link to comment
jo1952 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Dearest Mudcat,Your actions made me cry for happy. I love you my friend. My condolences to you and your wife and to her best friend's family.Love,jo Edited October 31, 2011 by jo1952 1 Link to comment
oats Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Being immature as I am, I may have continued asking the man insincere questions to expose his ignorance on the matter of other religions. That would have served little purpose other than to make a mockery of somebody.Thank you for posting that experience. I didn't see the example first hand, but your report alone is a powerful enough example to teach me a better response to that type of situation. 1 Link to comment
DarkScythe Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 you were in the right. For that guy was an idiot and deserved it for his ignorance. 1 Link to comment
ERayR Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 There are times when we all must face the wrongness of something we have done. Your handling of this in the manner you did gives this young man an opportunity to reevaluate the way he approaces things and hopefully will give him pause to reflect and become a better Christian. You are a good person and one I am proud to call a friend. 1 Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 That was a brave thing to do. Thank you. Link to comment
Mudcat Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the responses everyone.Mudcat, I have had trouble most my life hastily saying just exactly what I have felt when at times for peace and avoiding contention I should have bit my own tongue. Your response is one I could see myself doing and agreeing with. Thanks for doing so.I suppose what I find troubling in myself, is that I let the fellow get to me in such a way. I am thankful the fellow had the good sense to remove himself from the situation. I am not specifically certain as to how I would have reacted had he stayed there and continued on.I have never had much issue with someone who said something that was hurtful directly to me. It is the fact that my wife and other people were targeted that created a much different sort of thing in me.It's hard to express how angry I was. I haven't been that way in quite some time. I suppose, I had drawn a mental "line in the sand" and I don't think I would have offered any sort positive Christian reaction had he crossed it.It is in what I was prepared to do if the situation went differently, that I am disappointed with myself. There wasn't anything good working in my heart at the time. 1 Link to comment
TAO Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the responses everyone.I suppose what I find troubling in myself, is that I let the fellow get to me in such a way. I am thankful the fellow had the good sense to remove himself from the situation. I am not specifically certain as to how I would have reacted had he stayed there and continued on.I have never had much issue with someone who said something that was hurtful directly to me. It is the fact that my wife and other people were targeted that created a much different sort of thing in me.It's hard to express how angry I was. I haven't been that way in quite some time. I suppose, I had drawn a mental "line in the sand" and I don't think I would have offered any sort positive Christian reaction had he crossed it.It is in what I was prepared to do if the situation went differently, that I am disappointed with myself. There wasn't anything good working in my heart at the time.Hey, none of us are perfect.... now is the time to get better, that it is... and since you know what it is you need... strive for it =D.Best of Wishes,TAO 1 Link to comment
Nathair/|\ Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the responses everyone.I suppose what I find troubling in myself, is that I let the fellow get to me in such a way. I am thankful the fellow had the good sense to remove himself from the situation. I am not specifically certain as to how I would have reacted had he stayed there and continued on.I have never had much issue with someone who said something that was hurtful directly to me. It is the fact that my wife and other people were targeted that created a much different sort of thing in me.It's hard to express how angry I was. I haven't been that way in quite some time. I suppose, I had drawn a mental "line in the sand" and I don't think I would have offered any sort positive Christian reaction had he crossed it.It is in what I was prepared to do if the situation went differently, that I am disappointed with myself. There wasn't anything good working in my heart at the time.Your anger under the circumstances, especially while grieving is entirely normal and not unhealthy. Your reason for being angry is quite laudable. Based on your description, you handled it quite well.Beyond that, all I have to offer is a fraternal . 1 Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Mudcat:Even Christ drove the money changers from the Temple. He displayed righteous anger, you did the same. It was a brave and good thing to do. 1 Link to comment
William Schryver Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the responses everyone.I suppose what I find troubling in myself, is that I let the fellow get to me in such a way. I am thankful the fellow had the good sense to remove himself from the situation. I am not specifically certain as to how I would have reacted had he stayed there and continued on.I have never had much issue with someone who said something that was hurtful directly to me. It is the fact that my wife and other people were targeted that created a much different sort of thing in me.It's hard to express how angry I was. I haven't been that way in quite some time. I suppose, I had drawn a mental "line in the sand" and I don't think I would have offered any sort positive Christian reaction had he crossed it.It is in what I was prepared to do if the situation went differently, that I am disappointed with myself. There wasn't anything good working in my heart at the time.Unless there's some part of the story that you're not telling us, it sounds to me like you had a fairly measured response to what was, in my opinion, a very reprehensible quasi-public utterance by the young pastor.I think it is unfortunate that more people are afraid, or intimidated by circumstances, such that they refuse to do something like what you did; to take a stand for what is right in a given situation.I commend you. Link to comment
Calm Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I am not specifically certain as to how I would have reacted had he stayed there and continued on........It's hard to express how angry I was. I haven't been that way in quite some time. I suppose, I had drawn a mental "line in the sand" and I don't think I would have offered any sort positive Christian reaction had he crossed it.It is in what I was prepared to do if the situation went differently, that I am disappointed with myself. There wasn't anything good working in my heart at the time.But the fact is because he didn't cross the line you really have no idea what you might have done. Your heart was ready to go, but your mind was probably there as well, aware of all those who would be troubled by your action. Your mind knew what was right. Chances are it was ready to step in if it was needed...,which it was not. Don't assume that just because that level of anger reminded you of the past that the past you would have been the one reacting...that guy is gone, it would be the mudcat of today...the older and wiser and very caring who would make that decision when the time came. 1 Link to comment
MorningStar Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Good for you! I think you handled it quite civilly. Link to comment
Garden Girl Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 One of my favorite movies is "Gentlemen's Agreement"... Came out in the '50's starring Gregory Peck. The premise is that he is a writer who has taken on an assignment to write about anti-Semetism. In the process he has a close Jewish friend from all through boyhood and into adulthood whom he consults. One evening they are talking along with Peck's fiance... and she related how one evening at a dinner party a man told a joke about a Jewish man, using stereotypical language, etc.Peck's Jewish friend asks her... What did you do when he told the joke? She responds that everyone was uncomfortable, that they hated what he did... and the friend asked... Yes, but what did you do? And she responds dejectedly... Nothing... we just sat there...That was an eye opener for me in general, and how often we are placed in circumstances such as you were, Mudcat... and so, what did you do? You did the right thing...I hope the pastor will keep this in his memory... I suspect he will...from the beach on a lovely fall sunny morning after a cleansing rain... prayers for all the people back east who are without power, which is affecting things in numerous ways.GG Link to comment
stevedallas Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 you did well, Grasshopper..... Link to comment
Deborah Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I think people need to be more careful what they say in public places. I was in a discussion group with a bunch of Methodists when they started talking down about the Mormons. I said "Before anyone says anything else you should know I am a Mormon." Silence for a moment and then the subject was changed. It showed me how a person's perspective can change when they actually know someone who is part of that group against whom they have so much bias.At another time I was in a restaurant with my Mom and a bunch of young people behind us were talking about the Mormons. My mom could see me getting excited and begged me not to make a scene. They had been specifically talking about how we don't believe the Bible. This happened to be at the time the church was coming out with it's very detailed and highly praised footnoted edition of the Bible. I wrote my testimony on a napkin, expressing my love for the Bible and how much it is part of Mormon belief. As Mom and I left I dropped the napkin on their table. We could see them in the window reading the note and discussing it. My hope was that at least one person in the group would realize they shouldn't believe everything they are told and would be more careful of judging others in the future.When my youngest daughter was around 5 or 6 her Dad was trying to get her to want to live with him. He told her "Where you live are all these Mexicans" in that tone saying how awful they are. When Diana told me this I said to her, "You know Maria, your best friend?" She said "Yes..." I said "She's Mexican." She said "She is?" Of course she realized then that there was nothing wrong with Mexicans.So MC, I appreciate your defense of both Catholics and Mormons. People often say thing without thinking based on prejudices they have been taught. We need to be more careful in our judgements. What is sad is when children are so indoctrinated with prejudices. 3 Link to comment
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