stevedallas Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I feel like the biggest fool. Here I am, 51 years old. I am a managing attorney. I was an officer in the Army. I am used to making decisions and sticking with them. I do not waffle. Yet, here I am. I am pulled so much to the LDS Church, but so many issues keep me away. I love the present LDS Church, but have many issues with the past. I love what appears to be current doctrines (or most of them), but have problems with older doctrines (or what they appear to be).All I want to do is be where God wants me. Some days it almost seems like it is tearing me apart. Not sure why I posted this. I expect folks will mock me, but there it is Link to comment
Okrahomer Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I cannot imagine anyone will (or would) mock you for your honest post. Compassion and hearfelt prayers on your behalf seem more likely. Many of us can identify with the kind of struggle you are going through.Mark 9:24: And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine aunbelief. 4 Link to comment
Popular Post bluebell Posted October 27, 2011 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2011 "Help thou mine unbelief" is my all-time favorite scripture. Sometimes, all i can do is 'desire to believe', but i've found that that desire has always been enough for my Father in Heaven to work with.That's not to say its easy. I've always kind of wished that the Spirit worked more in giant neon signs with arrows than still small voices and burnings in the bosom. 8 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 If there had been as much information about the apostolic Christian church as there is about the restoration (LDS) Church, how many would have all kinds of issues with that past?The thing is, the apostolic Church had political infighting, false prophets and apostles, and probably crazies as well. The hints we get from scripture alone can be astonishing. The thing is, God has no choice but to entrust His precious truths to human beings, knowing they can be selfish, deceptive, venal, immoral, vainglorious, and just plain evil. He know that even the elect will be deceived. And yet, knowing all this, He still works with us.There is nothing wrong with the LDS Church's past that wasn't wrong with the past of the Apostolic Church's. And the cause is the same. Evaluate based not on external factors, but on internal factors: what the Spirit tells you is right. Read Alma 32. Don't expect perfect knowledge because you won't get it. 3 Link to comment
ERayR Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I feel like the biggest fool. Here I am, 51 years old. I am a managing attorney. I was an officer in the Army. I am used to making decisions and sticking with them. I do not waffle. Yet, here I am. I am pulled so much to the LDS Church, but so many issues keep me away. I love the present LDS Church, but have many issues with the past. I love what appears to be current doctrines (or most of them), but have problems with older doctrines (or what they appear to be).All I want to do is be where God wants me. Some days it almost seems like it is tearing me apart.Not sure why I posted this. I expect folks will mock me, but there it isPerhaps you could approach it this way. Pray to God and ask where he wants you to be. If you get an answer that you should be with the COJCOLDS, then follow that prompting and do what I did/do when I found something that bothered me. Put it in the background and give yourself time to find more information. I have had some things back there for years adding bits and pieces of information. Then one day you will wake up and find that the earth has tilted and something else has fallen in place. There probably won't be any horns blaring or angels appearing in a flash of light but you will know the answer to your question and you will find that if you have followed the path of the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by the COJCOLDS you have gone in the right direction. With diligent study the journey becomes quite interesting at times. 3 Link to comment
Storm Rider Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I feel like the biggest fool. Here I am, 51 years old. I am a managing attorney. I was an officer in the Army. I am used to making decisions and sticking with them. I do not waffle. Yet, here I am. I am pulled so much to the LDS Church, but so many issues keep me away. I love the present LDS Church, but have many issues with the past. I love what appears to be current doctrines (or most of them), but have problems with older doctrines (or what they appear to be).All I want to do is be where God wants me. Some days it almost seems like it is tearing me apart.Not sure why I posted this. I expect folks will mock me, but there it isSteve, you are doing just fine. To walk by faith is not easy. Where he guides me I will follow; in faith, even when I don't understand the logic of it. I have enough skepticism about the ability to know what happened yesterday, much less over 150 years ago, that some things I just put aside until I gain a greater understanding. Until then, I can rejoice in what I know is true. Keep serving the Lord and you will be fine. 1 Link to comment
TAO Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Do what is right let the consequence follow =).Just trust in the spirit, my friend. It is between you, him, Christ, and God, that it is =D.Trust them =). We may not understand all things God does, but I am sure we can understand what he wills for us to do. Edited October 27, 2011 by TAO Link to comment
altersteve Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) You may not know for sure where God wants you, but you must always remember that He doesn't want you to feel torn. He wants all His children to be happy and at peace with themselves. Once that is understood, and once it is understood that no amount of pain lasts forever when we place our trust in the Lord, everything else seems to fall into place. It may take awhile, but it will happen. We are assured of this. Remember the words of the Lord in D&C 121:"My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment." Edited October 27, 2011 by altersteve Link to comment
ldsfaqs Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Along with what others have said, I would like to give my thoughts.What if we told you that the things of the past that you have problems with, aren't actually the whole story?Would it matter to you, that your concern is completely based on the perversions of history by the devil, and things you simply may not yet know and understand?Would it matter to you, that if I gave you my word, as someone who's been there, been concerned with some things of the past, but who has learned more, and discovered those things to not at all be a concern?Of course, you can't just take someones word for it. One must always be comfortable in their own skins.Only you can develop a testimony, and learn the things that will ease your mind.If you wish, you can contact me by PM, and give me your list of biggest concerns from the history, and I will be happy to clarify and make okay those issues, by telling you the full truth, so you may know, that there is little in the Churches past, that is actually a problem. I'm good for this, because I've been there. I'm both a convert to the Church from other religions, and I've left the Church having certain mainly past problems, but then came back and resolved them. Not resolving them because I needed to, but because they were able to be resolved. I had no need or interest in man-made religion, but only interested in the full and absolute truth.Anyway, you are on the right path. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 stevedallas:I'm not into mocking anyone.We all have questions about Church history. We are all very imperfect human beings. But that being said: I do have a testimony of the Restored Gospel. I don't have a testimony of Church history. 1 Link to comment
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I feel like the biggest fool. Here I am, 51 years old. I am a managing attorney. I was an officer in the Army. I am used to making decisions and sticking with them. I do not waffle. Yet, here I am. I am pulled so much to the LDS Church, but so many issues keep me away. I love the present LDS Church, but have many issues with the past. I love what appears to be current doctrines (or most of them), but have problems with older doctrines (or what they appear to be).All I want to do is be where God wants me. Some days it almost seems like it is tearing me apart.Not sure why I posted this. I expect folks will mock me, but there it isThere was an article written entitled, “I have a testimony of the gospel, not of Church history” (If memory serves). There are things that we may never understand with our 21st century minds. Also God chooses flawed men to accomplish his work because he has nothing else to work with. When it comes to Joseph Smith, I am just impressed at all he accomplished despite his weaknesses.BTW, Army man myself. Where did you serve? Link to comment
stevedallas Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I am humbled by your responses. I must say, I am not discouraged by history such as MMM or things like that. I have serious with the Book of Mormon, it's origin and the story of Joseph Smith. I can deal with the other stuff. To me things like MMM are no worse than the Baptist-driven KKK. I struggle. I thank you greatly for your words.....you cannot imagine my gratitude. Link to comment
stevedallas Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I served in Panama, Honduras, Ft. Sill, and Ft. Hood. I left the Army as a Captain. I am a Major in the State Guard. 1 Link to comment
Arkholt Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I am humbled by your responses. I must say, I am not discouraged by history such as MMM or things like that. I have serious with the Book of Mormon, it's origin and the story of Joseph Smith. I can deal with the other stuff. To me things like MMM are no worse than the Baptist-driven KKK.I struggle. I thank you greatly for your words.....you cannot imagine my gratitude.Like Star Gazer said, there are problems in any church, because its leaders on the Earth are mortal and fallible. People make mistakes. People are not perfect. The gospel, however, is. That's what you gain a testimony of.Mountain Meadows was wrong, and church leaders of the time knew it and condemned it. Some members made a huge mistake back then. Many members make huge mistakes now. Why should we not believe in a church simply because the people in it aren't perfect? Link to comment
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I served in Panama, Honduras, Ft. Sill, and Ft. Hood. I left the Army as a Captain. I am a Major in the State Guard.I served as an enlisted man in Infantry, but after a couple of years I changed MOS and served the remain 6 years as a crew Chief on Medivac Helicopter. When I got out I was a SGT.The last 6 years i enjoyed the most...we saved a lot of lives. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Pa Pa:US Air Force, Personnel Spec. All except Basic Training, and Tech School served in California. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 stevedallas:http://www.youtube.com/user/MormonMessages?v=FcLTctkl9_0&feature=pyv&ad=7809579630&kw=aaronic%20priesthood Link to comment
stevedallas Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Again, Things like MMM do not bother me. No Church has a perfect history. I have trouble regarding the plates, the first vision and the book of Mormon. I love the current doctrines (well, most of them) and I love what I hear at GC. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 stevedallas:What about the plates is a problem for you? 1 Link to comment
stevedallas Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 stevedallas:http://www.youtube.c...ic%20priesthoodvery nice video Link to comment
stevedallas Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 stevedallas:What about the plates is a problem for you?I do not believe the first vision story. I do not believe the tales that include him running on a bad leg at night through fields carrying the plates and still outrunning people. I have problems with how he was told about the plates in comparison with other tales of the day. I have a problem with the fact that how it was translated changed over the years. I have problems with a young uneducated man in backwoods 1880s America translating something from a language no one has heard of and coming up with language that sounds like very learned British Scholars from 1600s England. I have problems with lifting chapters from the KJV of the Bible. I have problems with all the "and it came to pass". It makes the book sound like someone was inventing a story, but, in an effort to sound Biblical, he peppered the book with that phrase.Please do not get me wrong, I WANT to believe those things. But praying has not helped.I listen to LDS singers on occasion. One of my favorites is Hilary Weeks. She has a song called "More Like a Whisper" that I LOVE. It is so true.....but yet, I do not even hear the whisper.Forgive my ranting. But, it feels good to discuss this. 1 Link to comment
ERayR Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I do not believe the first vision story. I do not believe the tales that include him running on a bad leg at night through fields carrying the plates and still outrunning people. I have problems with how he was told about the plates in comparison with other tales of the day. I have a problem with the fact that how it was translated changed over the years. I have problems with a young uneducated man in backwoods 1880s America translating something from a language no one has heard of and coming up with language that sounds like very learned British Scholars from 1600s England. I have problems with lifting chapters from the KJV of the Bible. I have problems with all the "and it came to pass". It makes the book sound like someone was inventing a story, but, in an effort to sound Biblical, he peppered the book with that phrase.Please do not get me wrong, I WANT to believe those things. But praying has not helped.I listen to LDS singers on occasion. One of my favorites is Hilary Weeks. She has a song called "More Like a Whisper" that I LOVE. It is so true.....but yet, I do not even hear the whisper.Forgive my ranting. But, it feels good to discuss this.Forgive me for contradicting you but in reading what you have posted it appears to me you do hear the whisper and are either missing it or ignoring it. 1 Link to comment
Sky Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Hi, stevedallas. There is no reason for anybody to mock you – you seem like a nice person and a sincere seeker of truth. I sympathize with you. We all wish you nothing but the very best. I know that you can come to know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet and that he saw and spoke with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, and likewise, that the Book of Mormon is true. Without that, we have nothing, despite the great messages that you hear in General Conference. Just let the Spirit work with you. Read the Book of Mormon with an open mind, and throw out any pre-conceived notions or ideas. I’m not saying you haven’t already done this, but if you have, do it again. I know you’ll get an answer. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I would suggest two books, Leonard Arrington and Davis Bitton's The Mormon Experience for the overall community experience and history and then Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling. Both are worth buying even for nonLDS who are curious about what the worldview of LDS is and how it was shaped. As far as the bad leg, Joseph was in excellent health. He often engaged in wrestling matches, etc. His daily lifestyle was an extremely physical one. His leg had been damaged, but that was many years in the past filled with hard, hard work.Besides, if he had the plates for real from the Lord, then surely if God can make the sea part for the Israelites to pass through unharmed and then have it fall on the Egyptians to drown them all, then the Lord is capable of putting some extra speed and strength into Joseph's limbs and perhaps causing a few stumbles for his enemies. Link to comment
stevedallas Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Forgive me for contradicting you but in reading what you have posted it appears to me you do hear the whisper and are either missing it or ignoring it.I have a very good LDS friend who says the same thing. I often wonder if the pull I feel is God, or just the good feelings I have. Is it God, or my desire? If it is God, then why can;t I get a testimony of the two critical issues? (Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith). If I was not bald, this would make me want to pull my hair out Link to comment
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