volgadon Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 We have to look at exactly how the son who stayed is faithful. If he is faithful to obtain material wealth then he is not like his father who rejoiced at seeing his other son. How come the one son did not also rejoice? In the story of the rich man and the beggar Abraham tells the rich man you had everything in life. Is this son who stayed like the rich man? I think so. The son who stayed can easily sin in his heart where it counts. And since it appears he does not forgive then he will not be forgiven. Considering that the penalty for being a prodigal son was death, I don't think the elder brother behaved that poorly. Link to comment
Calm Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 There are different areas of knowledge and experience. If one attempts to apply the same standard of measurement to different types, one ends up drawing false conclusions IMO. One would not attempt to claim that 20 years of experience as a plumber had more value than one year as a doctor when it comes to heart surgery, for example.A more fruitful question would be is there greater benefit in the experience of sinning or not sinning, assuming both end up as fully observant to the Lord's WIll. My opinion would be based on the reasons for both. If one refrained from sinning out of fear or some other passive reason, I see it as possible the experience of sinning providing more opportunity of growth long term, though that would depend on specifics and should not be automatically assumed as some sins may have horrendous, lifealtering consequences. However, if one refrains out of understanding of the consequences, then most likely one will benefit more from not sinning as one already possesses the most useful knowledge. Link to comment
LeSellers Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Considering that the penalty for being a prodigal son was death, I don't think the elder brother behaved that poorly.And it would have been the father who carried out the execution, as I understand it. To do as the prodigal did (request his inheritance early) was a direct infraction of the V commandment. It showed great and grave disrespect to the father. He would have been held in contempt by his peers, not to mention his broken heart. Obviously this man (a stand-in for Father) loved his wayward son very much. Lehi Link to comment
mbh26 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Given there is exactly one element in the second class, and an uncountable numbdr in the first, your point is not very useful.It wasn't a rhetorical question. I don't know either. If you don't know, say you don't know. Link to comment
LeSellers Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 If you don't know, say you don't know.I believe I did answer the question. See the whole of the response you quote partially here. Lehi Link to comment
mbh26 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 However, if one refrains out of understanding of the consequencesBut who really knows and understands the consequences of sin? Isn't that why sin is enticing? Do we not have to obey most commandments out of faith and not a perfect knowledge of the reasons? Link to comment
Calm Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think there are many sins that most people are capable of understanding the essential experience (what is important, not trivial, to our eternal progress) without having participated anthem, especially as we grow older and more experienced in many areas.Not all knowledge is beneficial, some can be a burden instead and only through the healing power of the Atonement can the effect of that knowledge be turned into something good.And if Christ can do that with detrimental knowledge, he can certainly do it with the absence of knowledge. Remember that experience is not the only teacher. Link to comment
ERayR Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 But if we as individuals sin and repent as opposed to never sin at all, do we diminish our own inheritances?That is not the focus of this discussion as I see it. Link to comment
changed Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Would you say that those who experience sinning and then repent are more knowledgable and experienced than those who never sinned at all?(New Testament | Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.not that I advocate going out and sinning ... you know the true strength of something by standing up and fighting it, not by laying down and letting it overpower you... Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 So do people who go inactive from Church and come back later miss out on these things? If the end result is the same, how does it matter? It matters because the things we do in life change others. It's like the story of the Laborers in the Vineyard. Despite getting the same pay they got more done. More people helped, more lives blessed. Some even stop being hired laborers and become friends. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Would you say that those who experience sinning and then repent are more knowledgable and experienced than those who never sinned at all?They have different knowledge and different experiences; not sure how to quantify that.They are not usually stronger for the experience.Favorite quote on the subject:“No man knows how bad he is till he has tried very hard to be good. A silly idea is current that good people do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation know how strong it is. After all, you find out the strength of the German army by fighting against it, not by giving in. You find out the strength of a wind by trying to walk against it, not by lying down. A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people, in one sense, know very little about badness. They have lived a sheltered life by always giving in. We never find out the strength of the evil impulse inside us until we try to fight it: and Christ, because he was the only man who never yielded to temptation, is also the only man who knows to the full what temptation means–the only complete realist.” -C.S. Lewis 1 Link to comment
mbh26 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 It matters because the things we do in life change others. It's like the story of the Laborers in the Vineyard. Despite getting the same pay they got more done. More people helped, more lives blessed. Some even stop being hired laborers and become friends.Good explanation, thanks. Link to comment
changed Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 They have different knowledge and different experiences; not sure how to quantify that.They are not usually stronger for the experience.Favorite quote on the subject:“No man knows how bad he is till he has tried very hard to be good. A silly idea is current that good people do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation know how strong it is. After all, you find out the strength of the German army by fighting against it, not by giving in. You find out the strength of a wind by trying to walk against it, not by lying down. A man who gives in to temptation after five minutes simply does not know what it would have been like an hour later. That is why bad people, in one sense, know very little about badness. They have lived a sheltered life by always giving in. We never find out the strength of the evil impulse inside us until we try to fight it: and Christ, because he was the only man who never yielded to temptation, is also the only man who knows to the full what temptation means–the only complete realist.” -C.S. LewisThanks! yea, that was the quote I was thinking of....the tree of knowledge.... they don't call it the "tree of knowledge" for nothing I guess...we all fall short - we all gain knowledge here...and eve rejoiced...(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 5:11)11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. Link to comment
frankenstein Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I have thought about the prodigal son along the same thoughts; when the father dies, what happens to the prodigal son who has no inheritance left. I think when I asked that question here a very thoughtful response was that is thinking beyond the intent of the story. But if the Father is God, and Christ is the son who stayed, then we must be the sons/daughters who strayed who are permitted back by the good graces of the father and while we have no claim to possession (depending on the Kingdom of Heaven) we are permitted an abode. Link to comment
blackstrap Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 This is one of those cases when it would be useful to have a good knowledge of the culture and laws pertaining to inheritence in ancient Israel.Perhaps someone can give a quick summary of such or link to resources which can illuminate the situation.Thanks. Link to comment
changed Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 So do people who go inactive from Church and come back later miss out on these things? If the end result is the same, how does it matter? people who go inactive - or - people who are converts (like me)... I spent the majority of my life without the benefits of the church... There are some things that I am behind in - but there are other things which I have a greater appreciation for... Link to comment
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