Church Records To Be Stored Near Jackson County

[Mark Beesley]

I found this to be of interest... It kind of slipped under the radar, but it makes sense, given what will eventually happen near there. Here's a snip:

"The Mormon Church plans to build an electronic safe house in the Northland for the billions of birth certificates and other genealogical records it has been compiling around the world for almost a century.

The 63,000-square-foot building is being designed to withstand the worst natural disasters and keep its computer servers cool and dry for several years should it lose outside power, all to ensure its trove of digital documents remains undamaged.

“Without question, we have the largest single repository of this type of information,” said Russell D. Stay, senior vice president of Family Search. “We’ve been pursuing this a long time.”

Construction is expected to begin by late fall in the Shoal Creek area, near Northeast Soccer Drive (roughly Northeast 76th Street) and Interstate 435. It is expected to be operational by early 2013."

http://www.kansascit...age-center.html

The most interesting thing I find about this is the implications it has for viewing Millennial activities and eternity. We know that temple work for the dead will be one of the primary activities we will be engaged in as we strive to get the entire human family sealed. There have been statements that during that time, there will be regular intercourse between the Spirit World and mortals as the work is advanced. Yet, in spite of that possibility of primary sources (participants in events) being available to gather information, the need is also apparenlty great to have access to the secondary sources (records of events). Maybe it doesn't mean anything . . . I'm just musing, happy for daylight and electricity.

[cdowis]

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

If the context is anything to go by, "they" refers to the Apostles, and by implication, to the other early Christians as well.

To me, "they" clearly refers to those who deny the resurrection. Why do they (the deniers) baptize for the dead if there is no resurrection.

[zerinus]

To me, "they" clearly refers to those who deny the resurrection. Why do they (the deniers) baptize for the dead if there is no resurrection.

To me you are wrong. There may be a question about who “they” refers to; but there is no question about who it does not refer to. The one thing that it definitely does not refer to is those “who deny the resurrection”—whoever else it may be referring to.

[Calm]

To me, "they" clearly refers to those who deny the resurrection. Why do they (the deniers) baptize for the dead if there is no resurrection.

Why would they baptize the dead if they didn't believe in a resurrection?

[Robert F. Smith]

Why would they baptize the dead if they didn't believe in a resurrection?

Exactly.

We have here the principle of vicarious baptism by a proxy or stand-in, a principle already available for the dead before New Testament times:

In II Maccabees 12:44-45 (and the surrounding text), Judah the Maccabee actually took up a collection and made a formal sin offering (with prayer) at the Temple in Jerusalem in order to atone for the sin of some Jewish warriors who had died in their sins:

For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain, to pray for the dead. . . . whereupon he made a reconciliation [atonement] for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.

In fact the late James Barr believed that St Paul (as a Pharisee) had this very text and this very sort of principle in mind when he wrote in I Corinthians 15:29 about a similar Christian procedure.

[Avatar4321]

Very interesting. Do the Brethren know something the rest of us dont? (likely they do) or are they just preparing very well? (also very likely)

[Avatar4321]

Very interesting. Do the Brethren know something the rest of us dont? (likely they do) or are they just preparing very well? (also very likely)

[Avatar4321]

Very interesting. Do the Brethren know something the rest of us dont? (likely they do) or are they just preparing very well? (also very likely)

[Kenngo1969]

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

"You've tested my patience for the last time, General."

[cdowis]

Why would they baptize the dead if they didn't believe in a resurrection?

That is Paul's point.

These Christians were following in the tradition of the Saducees who carefully followed the outward rites of law, but denied life after death. It didn't make sense.

Paul was trying to point out that contradiction to those Christians who performing the rules and rites, but denied the end purpose of those very rites.

Edited September 11, 2011 by cdowis

[Kenngo1969]

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

"You've tested my patience for the last time, General."

[Kenngo1969]

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

"You've tested my patience for the last time, General."

[TrueBlue?]

You know I have to...

1Tim1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith; so do.

I believe this is referring to those Jews who claimed salvation because they could trace there lineage back to Abraham. So in other words, don't waist time doing genealogies in the hopes that Abraham can save you, rather follow the law of Christ.

[TrueBlue?]

You know I have to...

1Tim1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith; so do.

I believe this is referring to those Jews who claimed salvation because they could trace there lineage back to Abraham. So in other words, don't waist time doing genealogies in the hopes that Abraham can save you, rather follow the law of Christ.

[TrueBlue?]

You know I have to...

1Tim1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith; so do.

I believe this is referring to those Jews who claimed salvation because they could trace there lineage back to Abraham. So in other words, don't waist time doing genealogies in the hopes that Abraham can save you, rather follow the law of Christ.

[Pahoran]

I believe I have discussed the topic of BFTD here at length. It would be useless to restate my thoughts on the subject again. I will only ask...

Who are these "they" Paul is referring to- when in the rest of the verses of the chapter he is speaking of "us" and "we"? Why does he exchange pronouns at this juncture, and refer to "they" being baptized for the dead and not "we" being baptized for the dead?

There is no "they;" at least, not in what Paul himself wrote. That "they" is an artifact of the English translation; we need a pronoun there to make the sentence work, but the Greek does not. The operative phrase is:

Hoi baptizomenoi huper ton nekron

Which the experts tell us comes out literally as "The being-baptized ones in behalf of those dead ones."

Regards,

Pahoran