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ozpoof

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One of the reasons I could no longer attend church was because any time I mentioned something in EQ that people didn't like hearing, even if it was fact and could be found in Church documents, I was told to stop talking about it.

Instead, the "official" version was to be taught, even if the official version was not what actually happened. The strange thing was that most of the men in the class knew what the reality was - they had studied church history - yet they kept quiet while the official version was read out.

Shouldn't everything taught in the Church of Jesus Christ be truth no matter if it makes people uncomfortable?

Isn't creating a different version than what is found in early church documents opening the church up to accusations of deceit?

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At Church, I feel we are taught was is most beneficial to our salvation. I've never gotten the impression anyone is trying to trick me about Church history at all. While some of it is clearly left out, the parts that are left out aren't useful for our salvation. I've never been told I can't study Church history. Not once. So no, I do not feel they've been remotely deceitful.

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Church worship and lessons are simply not designed to facilitate discussion out side a standardise curriculum. I don't think that there is anything fundamentally wrong with that. I don't think it is fair to bring up controversial things in lesson time, particularly around people who are fragile or not as mature in their spiritual development. In addition to this is the fact that most people, at least in my experience, are not that interested in non-devotional or non-gospel principled discussions.

I teach the Gospel Doctrine class and when it is relevant I do bring up things that are "new" and not often talked about. I think it deepens and adds nuance to the discussion. The church can certainly do more in broadening it development of its history in its curriculum and other study materials. However I think it is a false idea that the church is somehow being deceitful of it's history by only portraying a glossy side.

I can understand why it would be frustrating to be told to stop bring up things in class, but I can also see why it would be frustrating for a teacher to have his lesson "hijacked" by a discussion that takes it off the central message. The frustrating thing is not finding a forum for these off topic discussions. There are no real institutional forum that facilitates these discussions, which is why many turn to the internet and often stop going to church.

Anyway....it seems the issue goes further than your questions about truth and/or deceit. the questions seems to be around what is pragmatically the best way for the church to facilitate this growing need.

Paddy

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Church worship and lessons are simply not designed to facilitate discussion out side a standardise curriculum. I don't think that there is anything fundamentally wrong with that. I don't think it is fair to bring up controversial things in lesson time, particularly around people who are fragile or not as mature in their spiritual development. In addition to this is the fact that most people, at least in my experience, are not that interested in non-devotional or non-gospel principled discussions.

I teach the Gospel Doctrine class and when it is relevant I do bring up things that are "new" and not often talked about. I think it deepens and adds nuance to the discussion. The church can certainly do more in broadening it development of its history in its curriculum and other study materials. However I think it is a false idea that the church is somehow being deceitful of it's history by only portraying a glossy side.

I can understand why it would be frustrating to be told to stop bring up things in class, but I can also see why it would be frustrating for a teacher to have his lesson "hijacked" by a discussion that takes it off the central message. The frustrating thing is not finding a forum for these off topic discussions. There are no real institutional forum that facilitates these discussions, which is why many turn to the internet and often stop going to church.

Anyway....it seems the issue goes further than your questions about truth and/or deceit. the questions seems to be around what is pragmatically the best way for the church to facilitate this growing need.

Paddy

I'm talking about things that are being taught that are not true, not bringing up something outside the correlated curriculum. It's not only presenting the glossy side of history, its presenting a false history. I don't believe putting up my hand and trying to correct the "faith-promoting" version of history as "hijacking" the discussion.

I also believe to brush off untruths as being "not pertinent to my salvation" as not a wise thing to do. If the church you put all your faith in has a program of changing history to suit its needs, that most certainly has a lot to do with my salvation. I had faith that the LDS church was led by Christ. A Christ-led church would be 100% honest. Stifling those who wish to correct errors/lies in class does nothing to encourage faith that Christ leads the church.

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I'm talking about things that are being taught that are not true, not bringing up something outside the correlated curriculum. It's not only presenting the glossy side of history, its presenting a false history. I don't believe putting up my hand and trying to correct the "faith-promoting" version of history as "hijacking" the discussion.

I also believe to brush off untruths as being "not pertinent to my salvation" as not a wise thing to do. If the church you put all your faith in has a program of changing history to suit its needs, that most certainly has a lot to do with my salvation. I had faith that the LDS church was led by Christ. A Christ-led church would be 100% honest. Stifling those who wish to correct errors/lies in class does nothing to encourage faith that Christ leads the church.

It's impossible to find anything on this earth that is "100% honest", much less in a local EQ meeting. Having this strict expectation in ANYTHING in your life (job, church, marriage, yourself, etc) will inevitably lead to disappointment, heartache, and sorrow. The challenge in this life is realizing this and still managing to get through it all. Life is not black and white, despite what people in the church might say. It is filled with gray.

100% honesty (or black and white) won't come until Christ himself is leading the Church, or directing your EQ lesson.

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If gay Mormons who wish to stay in the church believe they will be "fixed" in the next life and be able to marry as Mormonism expects, they might stop killing themselves in such high numbers

If you were saying stuff like this trying to derail discussion in EQ I could understand why you had issues. BTW we don't allow personal threads or threads about the moderation on this board. Please read the board guidelines.

Nemesis

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