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Q1A3A Vs Q1A3B


dougtheavenger

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Of the 4 or 5 possible scenarios where the majority of American Indians could have Near Eastern paternal ancestors, my current favorite is this. Many Native Americans typed as Q1a3a are actually Q1a3b. The mutation the seperates these two lineage groups is called M323. I have read a number of DNA studies focused on Americans of pre-Columbian origin and none of them have listed M323 as one of the mutations tested for.

BACKGROUND

1. The Q1a3b Y-chromosome haplogroup includes 15% of Yemenite Jews. (Shen 2004)

2. The Q1a3a Y-chromosome haplogroup includes 30% of American Indians and about 4% of Latinos in the US, (Hammer 2005)

3. The Q1a3b haplogroup has never been found in a non-Jewish population which means that, at present, it is an Israelite marker.

4. According to Yemenite Jewish folk history, a group of wealthy Israelites left Jerusalem for Yemen in 629 BC when they heard Jeremiah predict the destruction of the temple.

5. The Q1a3a marker in American Indians is typically identified by testing positive for 2 mutations (M242 and M346) and negative for 1 mutation (M3). However, if you performed the same tests on a Yemenite Jew who belonged to the Q1a3b haplogroup you would get the same results; positive for M242 and M346 and negative for M3. You would test for the M323 mutation in order to find the difference.

THEORY

Until a reasonable search is made for the M323 mutation in populations of pre-Columbian American origin a direct link between the Middle East and pre-Columbian Americans via the Q1a3b haplogroup can not be dismissed.

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I am a complete noob about DNA testing. All I have heard says that there is no pre Columbian Israelite origin for the Amerinds. If I take your OP content correctly, you are saying that there is a connection, via a shared mutation, between Jews/Israelites in Yemen, and at least some Amerinds?...

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I am a complete noob about DNA testing. All I have heard says that there is no pre Columbian Israelite origin for the Amerinds. If I take your OP content correctly, you are saying that there is a connection, via a shared mutation, between Jews/Israelites in Yemen, and at least some Amerinds?...

A great deal of DNA commonality exists between American Indians and people of East Mediterranean ancestry. Jews and Greeks are routinely told they have Native American ancestry when they don't. (reference to be provided) Perhaps you heard the news about Larry David, a Jewish TV personality. If not, you can google "Larry David DNA native American" and bring up news reports about him. Of course the celebrity news media is pretty ignorant on the subject. So they thought it was news worthy when, in fact, it is commonplace.

In any case 30% of Native Americans in the US belong to the Q1a3a haplogroup as do small percentages of Norwegians, Saudis and East Indians. The M346 mutation that defines the strain of Q lineage that is found in America (Q1a3) has been detected in the Middle East, India, and Europe. (wiki) It has not been detected in East Asia or Central Asia nor in Siberia with the following exceptions. The M346 mutation has been detected in the Khanti who live on the western edge of Siberia (next to Europe) and the coastal regions of Siberia adjacent to Alaska where most scientists believe it spread from Alaska via "back migration". (reference to be provided)

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Any idea on the time period from where the connection would have been from?

Do you mean the connection between Q1a3a and Q1a3b? I'm not aware of any attempt to calculate that .

In 2004 a study by Zegura et al calculated that Native Americans of Q lineage and Altaians (south central Siberians) of Q lineage had a common ancestor that lived between 17,700 years ago and 10,500 years ago. However Zegura used a theoretical "effective mutation rate" of 7 per 10,000. Using observed mutation rates from Canadian pedigrees of 21 per 10,000 (Weber & Wong [1]), the date range would be between 5,900 and 3,500 years. If you use the rate of 28 per 10,000 observed by Kayser in his study of father-son pairs, then the date range changes to between 4,425 and 2,650 years ago.

Y-chromosome mutation rates are an interesting subject. Basically observed rates don't give the dates mainstream science wants for pre-Columbian studies. So, Underhill and a colleage named Zhivotovsky developed a theoretical "effective mutation rate" of 7 per 10,000. However, this has proved to be less than useful in other studies. For example, Brigitte Pakendorf found that Kayser's rate of 28 per 10,000 gave dates most consistant with linguistic and historical data when calculating the time of the Yakut expansion in Siberia [2]. In India, the "effective rate" yields an impossible date range of 34,000-75,000 years for the entrance of Q lineage into India [3]. The Q haplogroup is only 15,000-20,000 years old. Applying Kayser's observed rate of 28 per 10,000 produces a believable range of 8,500-18,500 years ago for Q in India, but gives dates for American Indian populations of about 2,000 ago.

FOOTNOTES

[1] Weber, J. L. & Wong, C. (1993) Hum. Mol. Genet. 2, 1123-1128.

[2] Brigitte Pakendorf , Innokentij N. Novgorodov , Vladimir L. Osakovskij , Albina P. Danilova , Artur P. Protodjakonov , Mark Stoneking, ,Investigating the effects of Prehistoric migrations in Siberia: genetic variation and the origins of Yakuts, Hum Genet (2006) 120:334-353 DOI 10.1007/s00439-006-0213-2

[3] Swarkar Sharma, Ekta Rai, Audesh K. Bhat, Amarjit S. Bhanwer, Rameshwar N.K. Bamezai, A novel subgroup Q5 of human Y-chromosomal haplogroup Q in India, BMC Evolutionary Biology 2007, 7:232 doi:10.1186/1471-2148-7-232<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

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