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Are We (Earth) Christ’S Starter World?


Bill “Papa” Lee

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I am not big on speculation, but reading the Bible as of late; are we Christ’s starter world? He is the God of Israel, but some statements and doctrine suggest he became like his Father when his mission was completed (See John 17). Also we are told in the Book of Mormon (Mosiah 5: 7) that when we are “born again” we become “His sons and His daughters”, as such we are Spiritually born of him. Our Father in heaven is already the Father of our spirits.

In the NT, it say’s; “though he were a son, yet he learned obedience through the things which he suffered’ (From memory, also from memory) “He “became” the author of our salvation”. Was this the first of many worlds? He also said that “all that I have do I have seen the Father do”, this prefaced with “I do nothing of myself”.

But the primary question is; “are we the first”?

I know the scriptures say; “I have created worlds without number”, but often he is speaking for the Father.

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Gotta start somewhere. But the answer to this question may hinge on for whom the Atonement is effective for. Everyone in all the universes past present and future or just the population of this world or anything in between.

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Do Mormons believe in a mult-verse?

Should the question be "is this universe Christ's starter universe?

Is there anything in the standard works to suggest that God (whether The Father, or Jesus) has a special relationship to this planet, this galaxy, or this universe (as oposed to other universes.)

Is there anything to suggest the existence of other universes?

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Do Mormons believe in a mult-verse?

Should the question be "is this universe Christ's starter universe?

Is there anything in the standard works to suggest that God (whether The Father, or Jesus) has a special relationship to this planet, this galaxy, or this universe (as oposed to other universes.)

Is there anything to suggest the existence of other universes?

Urroner, waving hand wildly, jumping up and down in his seat, his ADHD beaming in its full glory - "I do!!!! I do!!!! I believe in a multiverse or even a multiverse of multiverses."

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Urroner, waving hand wildly, jumping up and down in his seat, his ADHD beaming in its full glory - "I do!!!! I do!!!! I believe in a multiverse or even a multiverse of multiverses."

But is there anything in the standard works (or even less than standard works, like the Journal of Discourses) to suggest that?

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Gotta start somewhere. But the answer to this question may hinge on for whom the Atonement is effective for. Everyone in all the universes past present and future or just the population of this world or anything in between.

I have had the same questions that the op stated. But Christ is our Kinsman Redeemer. Our flesh and His flesh are the same. But scripture says that not all flesh is the same, fish, birds, etc. So Christ could make new flesh in which He would have to become a Kinsman Redeemer for that flesh if the cycle repeated. The Bible is way more open than most care to admit.

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Do Mormons believe in a mult-verse?

Should the question be "is this universe Christ's starter universe?

Is there anything in the standard works to suggest that God (whether The Father, or Jesus) has a special relationship to this planet, this galaxy, or this universe (as oposed to other universes.)

Is there anything to suggest the existence of other universes?

The multiverse mind exercise was a scientific way to give enough chance arrangments of physics to come up with one which made life. This being required because life is so delicately balanced in its makeup.

That being said I see no reason why this universe is the only one. Some say that the shell of energy that surrounds the universe shows signs of contact with something else. Very subjective though.

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...

But the primary question is; “are we the first”?

I know the scriptures say; “I have created worlds without number”, but often he is speaking for the Father.

"Every world has its own distinctive Savior." --Brigham Young

God is not one finite being.

But Jesus was a finite being. He had a spirit birth, and then he eventually came to this earth and obtained a physical body for the first time. Finally, he died and was resurrected with an eternal physical body.

He progressed grace upon grace and did not recieve the fulness at the first.

Jesus now is in total unity with other finite beings who have overcome all things. He is one with His Father, and the beginningless lineage of Fathers. He is one with all the Saviors of previous earths.

When the voice says, "I have created worlds without number" it is not the voice of one finite being. It is the voice of the One Infinite God.

The God above all other Gods is the Union of all finite exalted Saviors (Heirs) and Abrahams (Joint-Heirs) into One Infinite God.

Richard

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Is there anything to suggest the existence of other universes?

The fact that there is Theosis, the deification of man. All those Gods have to have room. Of course that depends on whether or not you believe one God for one universe or one GOd for a set of worlds within a universe.

Doesn't seem to be anything to preclude it either.

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"Every world has its own distinctive Savior." --Brigham Young

God is not one finite being.

But Jesus was a finite being. He had a spirit birth, and then he eventually came to this earth and obtained a physical body for the first time. Finally, he died and was resurrected with an eternal physical body.

He progressed grace upon grace and did not recieve the fulness at the first.

Jesus now is in total unity with other finite beings who have overcome all things. He is one with His Father, and the beginningless lineage of Fathers. He is one with all the Saviors of previous earths.

When the voice says, "I have created worlds without number" it is not the voice of one finite being. It is the voice of the One Infinite God.

The God above all other Gods is the Union of all finite exalted Saviors (Heirs) and Abrahams (Joint-Heirs) into One Infinite God.

Richard

"Every world has its own distinctive Savior." --Brigham Young

Of course we all know if Brigham Young said this, it has to be 100% accurate and true. ;)

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"Every world has its own distinctive Savior." --Brigham Young

Of course we all know if Brigham Young said this, it has to be 100% accurate and true. ;)

I think his comments are just an extension of our beliefs, when Christ said: “I do nothing of myself, but all that I do I have seen the Father do”, seems to mean that God the Father served at one time in the same role as Christ. For some odd reason Prophets can’t seem to have an opinion on anything without a deeper meaning be attached to it, by believers and critics alike.

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The fact that there is Theosis, the deification of man. All those Gods have to have room. Of course that depends on whether or not you believe one God for one universe or one GOd for a set of worlds within a universe.

Doesn't seem to be anything to preclude it either.

It also depends upon if you believe that Exaltation means the creation of "our own worlds", rather than simply participating in the creation process at the direction of the Father and Son. Their creations are without number and in a constant state of growth; they do not do this alone, but in the position of directing others in the process.

I would reject BY's statement; Christ's atonment was universal and not just for one world.

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It also depends upon if you believe that Exaltation means the creation of "our own worlds", rather than simply participating in the creation process at the direction of the Father and Son. Their creations are without number and in a constant state of growth; they do not do this alone, but in the position of directing others in the process.

I would reject BY's statement; Christ's atonment was universal and not just for one world.

Based on some comments I remember by JS, I would have to agree, but I believe we will always act under the authority of the Father and Son. Thus their "Glory" will expand.

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When the voice says, "I have created worlds without number" it is not the voice of one finite being. It is the voice of the One Infinite God.

The God above all other Gods is the Union of all finite exalted Saviors (Heirs) and Abrahams (Joint-Heirs) into One Infinite God.

Would that "one infinite God" ("The God above all other Gods") be the non-contingent cause of everything that exists?

"Every world has its own distinctive Savior." --Brigham Young

But what's meant by "world"?

Did Brigham, Joseph, or anyone else ever clarify this?

Does it mean planet, solar system, galexy, or universe?

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Pa Pa:

True enough Satan can quote Scripture with the best of them. But I do believe this is the case where Satan had a double meaning. He spoke the truth, but used it in the service of a lie.

Could be…he did say that once they ate they would be like the gods. Then when Father and Son showed up they said; “Behold the man has become as one of us”.

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Gotta start somewhere. But the answer to this question may hinge on for whom the Atonement is effective for. Everyone in all the universes past present and future or just the population of this world or anything in between.

I think His atonement is for all of Father's children in THIS universe. Big enough.

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I for one am hampered by the overpowering notion of lineal unidirectional TIME.

It's only unidirectional for us.

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We cannot comprehend how stinking big our universe is.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110413.html

Note the part of the description that says those bright dots are not stars,

but other radio galaxies so far distant that it took 1000 hours of exposure

to make them visible.

What implications does this have for the OP?

Bernard

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Parable of Twelve Kingdoms

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/88.51-61?lang=eng#50

37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

51 Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field to dig in the field.

52 And he said unto the first: Go ye and labor in the field, and in the first hour I will come unto you, and ye shall behold the joy of my countenance.

53 And he said unto the second: Go ye also into the field, and in the second hour I will visit you with the joy of my countenance.

54 And also unto the third, saying: I will visit you;

55 And unto the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.

56 And the lord of the field went unto the first in the first hour, and tarried with him all that hour, and he was made glad with the light of the countenance of his lord.

57 And then he withdrew from the first that he might visit the second also, and the third, and the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.

58 And thus they all received the light of the countenance of their lord, every man in his hour, and in his time, and in his season—

59 Beginning at the first, and so on unto the last, and from the last unto the first, and from the first unto the last;

60 Every man in his own order, until his hour was finished, even according as his lord had commanded him, that his lord might be glorified in him, and he in his lord, that they all might be glorified.

61 Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms, and the inhabitants thereof—every kingdom in its hour, and in its time, and in its season, even according to the decree which God hath made.

It has been said that there are twelve kingdoms, or planets, to which Christ is giving an equal division of His time or ministry, while we wait for His return to earth.

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This is an interesting question and I think perhaps one that is hard for us to answer fully until all things are made known to us. In light of some scriptures I am not so sure this earth is Christ's "starter" or first world... but I do believe it is the only one in which He came as a mortal and died and was resurrected. I think that makes this earth distinctive. The following quote gives us a glimpse into eternity:

(Moses 1:27-39) "And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God. And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore. And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof. And it came to pass that Moses called upon God, saying: Tell me, I pray thee, why these things are so, and by what thou madest them? And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me. And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth. And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten. And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many. But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content. And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come, and there is no end to my works, neither to my words. For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."
To me these words speak a wealth of knowledge on this subject and while we only are able to "see through a glass darkly" yet we are made to feel that this earth is but a speck a mote compared to all of God's creations. It is signficant that God told Moses that He would only tell Moses about this earth, and the others are on a "need to know" basis.

As for Christ's atonement the following indicates the universalness of it's scope:

(D&C 76:22-24) "And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father— That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God."
Now we can only guess if there are other Lords or other Gods in other universes, but unto as there is only One God, even the Father, and one Lord Jesus Christ and all that we have an are comes through them. If we are exalted we are not going to be "independent gods" who will reign apart from the Father and the Son, but we are of a linage of Gods that has no end and thus we could truly say to our spirit offspring, we are indeed "The First and the Last" and that as far as they are concerned we are their only God. The Prophet Joseph touched on many of these themes in the KFD and I believe he was opening up a blinding light that the spiritually weak cannot comprehend or accept. Perhaps that is why it was not officially canonized? But in any event I do not think we can state this was the "first earth" Christ participated in for I believe that Christ is the Savior of all the earths that are in the dominions of the Father and that is why it is often referred to as the council of the gods... We were on that council, and we participated in the creation of this earth. I think that was what it means by keeping our first estate. The key to exaltation is whether we keep this second estate. Because if we do then glory will be added upon our heads forever and ever.
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I am not big on speculation, but . .

How exactly do you define speculation???:D

Unless someone has been the recipient of revelation of the mysteries of God, and has decided to ignore the strict command not to impart only according to that portion which the Lord has granted unto all, there isn't an awful lot that touches on this subject. Even the Temple Scriptures, and Satan's comment about doing that which has been done on other worlds may be figurative, as is the account of the man and woman.

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