Two Witesses

[inquiringmind]

If we are living in the end times, can we expect two prophets to show up in Jerusalem?

What is the LDS view on this?

Also, will there be a reveval of the Roman Empire Europe (and what will be happening here in the United States (and in Utah)?

[cinepro]

If we are living in the end times, can we expect two prophets to show up in Jerusalem?

What is the LDS view on this?

Also, will there be a reveval of the Roman Empire Europe (and what will be happening here in the United States (and in Utah)?

There is a huge variety of thought among LDS about the "end times". Some really get into it, while others view it as an ephemeral concept and don't worry to much about it. The former publish books that gain traction for a little while, then they fall out of fashion and fade into obscurity.

I think most LDS (among those who are even aware of the "two prophets" prophecy) assume it will be two LDS apostles. The issue is more directly addressed in our canonized Q&A session with God regarding the Book of Revelations, found in Doctrine and Covenants 77, as discussed in this Ensign article from 1972:

Two prophets are to be raised up to the Jewish nation.

Joseph Smith has explained the following concerning the two prophets who are mentioned in Revelation 11:2–3, 6–12 [Rev. 11:2–3, 6–12]:

“Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation? [And the Lord answered:]

“A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.” (D&C 77:15.)

Orson Pratt has said the following concerning the role of these prophets: “We might bring up, also, the declaration of John in relation to the two witnesses who are to prophecy about that period. They are to prophecy three and a half years, and their field of labor will be Jerusalem, after it shall have been rebuilt by the Jews. By means of their prophecies and the power of God attending them, the nations who are gathered together against Jerusalem will be kept at bay, these Prophets will hold them in check by their faith and power. By and by these nations overcome the two witnesses and, having finished their mission, they are slain, and their bodies will lie three days and a half in the streets of the city. Then a great earthquake will take place, and these two witnesses will be caught up to heaven.” (JD, vol. 16, p. 329. Italics added.)

For a thrilling detailed insight into what is going to take place concerning this, one should read the entire eleventh chapter of the Book of Revelation.

[urroner]

If we are living in the end times, can we expect two prophets to show up in Jerusalem?

What is the LDS view on this?

Also, will there be a reveval of the Roman Empire Europe (and what will be happening here in the United States (and in Utah)?

Bruce R. McConkie taught that the two prophets would be two apostles from the Church, but that isn't Church doctrine.

From the mormonwiki site, which still isn't doctrine nor sponsored by the Church AFAIK, in the Armageddon page:

The Two Prophets

As the battle rages on, Jerusalem will be protected by two prophets who hold great power. John the Revelator gave the most detailed picture of these two participants. They are called the “two witnesses,” the “two olive trees” and the “two candlesticks” (Revelation 11:3–4). Latter-day revelation teaches that they are “two prophets . . . raised up to the Jewish nation” who will “prophesy to [them] after they are gathered and have built . . . Jerusalem” (Doctrine and Covenants 77:15). Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote,

“The two olive trees, and the two candlesticks [are] symbols of the two witnesses; meaning, perhaps, that as olive trees, they shall provide oil for the lamps of those who go forth to meet the Bridegroom; . . . and that as lamp stands they shall reflect to men that light which comes from Him who is the Light of the World." These prophets will have power to pronounce great judgments upon the earth (see Revelation 11:5–6). “They shall have power like Elijah who called down fire from heaven to consume his enemies, and who sealed the heavens that it rained not in all Israel for the space of three and a half years (1 Kings 17 and 18; 2 Kings 1), and like Moses by whose word blood and plagues lay heavily upon the Egyptians" (Exodus 7, 8, 9, and 10). [2]

Elder Parley P. Pratt wrote: “John, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation, gives us many more particulars concerning this same event. He informs us that after the city and temple are rebuilt by the Jews, the Gentiles will tread it under foot forty and two months, during which time there will be two prophets continually prophesying and working mighty miracles. And it seems that the Gentile army shall be hindered from utterly destroying and overthrowing the city, while these two prophets continue” (A Voice of Warning, p. 33).

Isaiah called these prophets “two sons” and said they were the only hope of deliverance for Israel because they would be “full of the fury of the Lord” (Joseph Smith Translation, Isaiah 51:19–20; see also JST, Isaiah 51:17–18).

John showed that eventually the two prophets will be captured and killed by the opposing army, and their bodies will be left in the streets of Jerusalem for “three days and an half” as the forces of evil engage in a great celebration over their death (Revelation 11:9; see also Revelation 11:7–8, 10). During the “three days and an half” that the prophets lie dead in the streets, the army will ravage the city of Jerusalem and the remaining population of Israel (Revelation 11:9). Then these two prophets will rise and join Christ at His coming.

[cinepro]

Bruce R. McConkie taught that the two prophets would be two apostles from the Church, but that isn't Church doctrine.

From the mormonwiki site, which still isn't doctrine nor sponsored by the Church AFAIK, in the Armageddon page:

I propose that when we're quoting a non-doctrinal statement from the good Elder McConkie that we refer to him as "Bruce McConkie".

[blackstrap]

Three and a half days> three and a half years > forty-two months > 1260 years of apostasy = sacred math . Kind of like three days in the tomb. Rough figuring!

[urroner]

I propose that when we're quoting a non-doctrinal statement from the good Elder McConkie that we refer to him as "Bruce McConkie".

What???? I can't say "Bruce R. McConkie, but I'm being forced to say "Bruce McConkie?" Who do you think you are? Did some watery tart throw a sword at you or what?

[inquiringmind]

There is a huge variety of thought among LDS about the "end times". Some really get into it, while others view it as an ephemeral concept and don't worry to much about it. The former publish books that gain traction for a little while, then they fall out of fashion and fade into obscurity.

I think most LDS (among those who are even aware of the "two prophets" prophecy) assume it will be two LDS apostles. The issue is more directly addressed in our canonized Q&A session with God regarding the Book of Revelations, found in Doctrine and Covenants 77, as discussed in this Ensign article from 1972:

Thank you.

I'd like to be in Jerusalem when they show up there.

God Bless.

[bookofmormontruth]

Thank you.

I'd like to be in Jerusalem when they show up there.

God Bless.

Why, when you can show up on Temple Square and see them every 6 months?

True, you might be bombarded by vile from the anti-Mormon protesters on the street corners, but why be where an entire army just killed 2 prophets?

[volgadon]

Thank you.

I'd like to be in Jerusalem when they show up there.

God Bless.

Many years ago when my Mom was visiting from Israel in the US a sweet little old lady congratulated her on having front row seats to Armagedon, so to speak.

[inquiringmind]

Many years ago when my Mom was visiting from Israel in the US a sweet little old lady congratulated her on having front row seats to Armagedon, so to speak.

I don't want a front row seat to Armagedon, but I can think of a lot of questions I'd like to ask the two witnesses.

[Doug the Hutt]

I nominate Voldadon as one of the two prophets. Let's get ready to rumble!!!

[inquiringmind]

I nominate Voldadon as one of the two prophets. Let's get ready to rumble!!!

I don't think the two witnesses will be chosen or empowered by a nomination process.

But if they show up at the Wailing Wall, I would like to be there to humbly ask them some questions.

[bookofmormontruth]

I don't think the two witnesses will be chosen or empowered by a nomination process.

But if they show up at the Wailing Wall, I would like to be there to humbly ask them some questions.

Well, you probably might want to have the answers before that very end time.

[inquiringmind]

Well, you probably might want to have the answers before that very end time.

Maybe we all have some answers.

I'd like more certainty.

[cdowis]

I have always wondered about the entire world at war with Israel. Where is the United States while that is going on?

A couple of days ago I got my answer.

[Questing Beast]

To me it is obvious that this is an old Jewish tradition borrowed into Christianity. But even IF the Two Prophets came and were killed after the 42 months of prophesying and pestering the Antichrist and his minions, and were subsequently left to rot in the streets of Jerusalem for three days, and then were resurrected before the gathered media of the world, and were videoed ascending into heaven, and even recorded the voice from heaven calling them forth, etc. and etc., how, exactly, could this event in this day and age of disbelief in anything we see and hear in the media, possibly produce the conviction among the people that this was real and not some CGI enhanced scam?

There is nothing whatsoever in the biblical prophetic lit that points to the high tech world we inhabit. And any "signs and wonders" prophesied have long since been surpassed by the mundane profundity of our casual entertainments. No false prophets have a venue for the miraculous anymore....

[blackstrap]

QB, have you seen the recent uproar over the May21 doomsday stuff? I think videos as you describe would cause a major,if brief, flap around the world.

[MDalby]

http://LDSLastDays.com/default.aspx?page=psc712.htm

Two Prophets

BM, 2 NEPHI 8:19-20

Two prophets will preach in Jerusalem. These two SONS come unto thee. Thy sons have fainted SAVE THESE TWO.

18 And none to guide her among all the sons she hath brought forth; neither that taketh her by the hand, of all the sons she hath brought up.

19 THESE TWO SONS (The KJV Isaiah 51:19-20 has "These two things...") are come unto thee, who shall be sorry for thee--thy desolation and destruction, and the famine and the sword--and by whom shall I comfort thee?

20 Thy sons have fainted, save these two; they lie at the head of all the streets; as a wild bull in a net, they are full of the fury of the Lord, the rebuke of thy God.

Consistent with the Lord's approach that all things typify Christ (2 Nephi 11:4), these two prophets will prophecy for 3 1/2 years, typifying the 3 1/2 year ministry of the Savior. This is also the same amount of time that Jerusalem will be under seige from the Gentiles, "for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (Rev 11:2)."

After the Two Prophets have completed their mission the Lord will allow Gog and Magog to kill the Two Prophets and the Prophets will seal their testimony with their blood, typifying Christ. Their bodies will lay in the street for 3 1/2 days, typifying the time that Christ's body lay in the tomb (Mark 8:31).

BIBLE, REV 11:1-12

1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Gog and Magog realize that these two prophets were the only barrier from completely defeating Israel. The world rejoices and prematurely sends victory gifts to one another.

BIBLE, REV 11:10

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

After the 3 1/2 days in the street, the two prophets are resurrected. Great fear comes upon Gog and Magog.

BIBLE, REV 11:11-12

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

During the two prophets time they will have power given unto them and they shall prophecy unto the Jews for three and one-half years.

BIBLE, REV 11:3

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

After 3 1/2 years that the two prophets have held back the forces of Gog and Magog from completely overtaking Israel, the two prophets will become martyrs. Satan will make war with them and kill them.

BIBLE, REV 11:7

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

After the two prophets have been killed, Gog and Magog leave the bodies of the prophets laying in the street as disrespect. They leave the bodies there 3 1/2 days, one day for each year that the prophets held back the forces of Gog and Magog.

BIBLE, REV 11:8-9

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

BIBLE, ZECH 4:11-14

11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What [are] these two olive trees upon the right [side] of the candlestick and upon the left [side] thereof?

12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What [be these] two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden [oil] out of themselves?

13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these [be]? And I said, No, my lord.

14 Then said he, These [are] the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

D&C, 77:15

Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?

A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.

D&C, 133:58

58 To prepare the weak for those things which are coming on the earth, and for the Lord's errand in the day when the weak shall confound the wise, and the little one become a strong nation, and two shall put their tens of thousands to flight.

D&C, 77:15

15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?

A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.

JD, O PRATT 16:329

We might bring up, also, the declaration of John in relation to the two witnesses who are to prophecy about that period. They are to prophecy three and a half years, and their field of labor will be Jerusalem, after it shall have been rebuilt by the Jews. By means of their prophecies and the power of God attending them, the nations who are gathered together against Jerusalem will be kept at bay, these Prophets will hold them in check by their faith and power. By and by these nations overcome the two witnesses and, having finished their mission, they are slain, and their bodies will lie three days and a half in the streets of the city. Then a great earthquake will take place, and these two witnesses will be caught up to heaven.

[MDalby]

I have always wondered about the entire world at war with Israel. Where is the United States while that is going on?

A couple of days ago I got my answer.

Saudi Arabia, United States and Great Britain will apparently Object to the Battle of Armageddon

Apparently there will be nations that will object to the Battle of Armageddon. Ezekiel points out that Sheba, and Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof will object and question the intentions of Gog.

Sheba and Dedan are descendants of Shem and inhabited the region known today as Saudi Arabia. There are questions as to who Ezekiel is referring to as the merchants of Tarshish but we do know that they were a seafaring people that would necessitate a coastal nation. We do know that there was a Tarshish to the north-west of Judea. This appears in the case of Jonah, who was at Joppa on the Mediterranean when he sailed toward Tarshish. Jonah could only sail towards the west.

3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

(Jonah 1:3)

Addressing Tyre, Ezekiel says:

12 Tarshish was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kinds of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded for thy wares.

(Ezekiel 27:12)

These metals are predominantly the products of Britain, referred to by the Phenicians as Baratanac, "the land of tin". Ezekiel gives further clues as to the identity of Tarshish by saying:

13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee: Comest thou to take the spoil? hast thou assembled thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take great spoil?

(Ezekiel 38:13)

The symbol of Great Britain is the Lion with the mother lion found on Britain's coinage, her royal standard, and in every imperial coat-of-arms. Many modern journalists have referred to the colonies as "young lions." This could certainly apply to the colonies of Great Britain with the United States being a young lion.

[inquiringmind]

To me it is obvious that this is an old Jewish tradition borrowed into Christianity. But even IF the Two Prophets came and were killed after the 42 months of prophesying and pestering the Antichrist and his minions, and were subsequently left to rot in the streets of Jerusalem for three days, and then were resurrected before the gathered media of the world, and were videoed ascending into heaven, and even recorded the voice from heaven calling them forth, etc. and etc., how, exactly, could this event in this day and age of disbelief in anything we see and hear in the media, possibly produce the conviction among the people that this was real and not some CGI enhanced scam?

There is nothing whatsoever in the biblical prophetic lit that points to the high tech world we inhabit. And any "signs and wonders" prophesied have long since been surpassed by the mundane profundity of our casual entertainments. No false prophets have a venue for the miraculous anymore....

But isn't that pretty much the way the world's reaction is portrayed in the book of revelation?

The whole world doesn't fall down and repent when this happens.

Maybe that's because we live in a technological age, where more people believe in ufo's and area 51 than in God.

[volgadon]

I don't think the two witnesses will be chosen or empowered by a nomination process.

Shame, rules me out. =)

[bookofmormontruth]

Saudi Arabia, United States and Great Britain will apparently Object to the Battle of Armageddon

Apparently there will be nations that will object to the Battle of Armageddon. Ezekiel points out that Sheba, and Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof will object and question the intentions of Gog.

Sheba and Dedan are descendants of Shem and inhabited the region known today as Saudi Arabia. There are questions as to who Ezekiel is referring to as the merchants of Tarshish but we do know that they were a seafaring people that would necessitate a coastal nation. We do know that there was a Tarshish to the north-west of Judea. This appears in the case of Jonah, who was at Joppa on the Mediterranean when he sailed toward Tarshish. Jonah could only sail towards the west.

3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

(Jonah 1:3)

Addressing Tyre, Ezekiel says:

12 Tarshish was thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all kinds of riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded for thy wares.

(Ezekiel 27:12)

These metals are predominantly the products of Britain, referred to by the Phenicians as Baratanac, "the land of tin". Ezekiel gives further clues as to the identity of Tarshish by saying:

13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee: Comest thou to take the spoil? hast thou assembled thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take great spoil?

(Ezekiel 38:13)

The symbol of Great Britain is the Lion with the mother lion found on Britain's coinage, her royal standard, and in every imperial coat-of-arms. Many modern journalists have referred to the colonies as "young lions." This could certainly apply to the colonies of Great Britain with the United States being a young lion.

Maybe it is the memory from staying up late watching Jack Van Impe's Biblical prophecies, but my understanding was that America isn't even mentioned toward the very last days because we have been "destroyed".

[inquiringmind]

Shame, rules me out. =)

Not necessarily.

And if you (an LDS) do turn out to be one of the Two Witnesses, it would answer some of my questions.

[bookofmormontruth]

But isn't that pretty much the way the world's reaction is portrayed in the book of revelation?

The whole world doesn't fall down and repent when this happens.

Maybe that's because we live in a technological age, where more people believe in ufo's and area 51 than in God.

QB's role on here is to take the opposite view on everything, don't mind him.

Instead of attributing calamities to the warnings of G-d, it is blamed on "global warming" / "climate change" - the new religion.

[blackstrap]

Let us not confuse the two different final battles,one at Christ's return ,and one at the end of the millenium ( Gog and Magog)