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Can Truth Be Measured By "Anti" Sentiment


Walden

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There is a poster on this site who has the following quote in their footer, which I find fascinating:

"If the Church were not true, our enemies would be bored rather than threatened, and acquiescent rather than anxious. Hell is moved only when things move Heavenward." Neal A. Maxwell

If this were actually true, wouldn't it be applicable to Scientology more so than Mormonism? On a per capita basis (considering the size of the LDS religion versus Scientology), I would posit that the backlash, "anti" sentiment is more prevalant towards Scientology than it is towards Mormonism. And what about the Jews....couldn't this be interpreted to mean that all the punishment and "anti" sentiment practiced towards Jews over the centuries is some type of validation of the truthfulness of their "gospel."

How is this statement exclusive to Mormonism?

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There is a poster on this site who has the following quote in their footer, which I find fascinating:

"If the Church were not true, our enemies would be bored rather than threatened, and acquiescent rather than anxious. Hell is moved only when things move Heavenward." Neal A. Maxwell

If this were actually true, wouldn't it be applicable to Scientology more so than Mormonism? On a per capita basis (considering the size of the LDS religion versus Scientology), I would posit that the backlash, "anti" sentiment is more prevalant towards Scientology than it is towards Mormonism. And what about the Jews....couldn't this be interpreted to mean that all the punishment and "anti" sentiment practiced towards Jews over the centuries is some type of validation of the truthfulness of their "gospel."

How is this statement exclusive to Mormonism?

Because the statement also makes the bold claim that the LDS Church is the only Church on Earth that is true hence why it is exclusive to "Mormonism". wink.gif

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The antagonism against certain groups, races, individuals, countries, or any other entity isn't what Elder Maxwell had in mind. (I should know, I can read minds!) I believe he was getting at the 'anti' sentiment where people who have nothing to do with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints make DVDs and distribute media attacking our beliefs, fuss, scream and whine when their flock or family members join us with only baseless accusations of 'cultism' is what Elder Maxwell is talking about. I visited numerous Christian bookstores throughout the East Bay area of Northern Calfornia and found that Mormons are often the target of American Christian criticism. It just took a few moments perusing the "Cults" section of each store.

The accusations against Scientology seem to have a more legitimate base than that. Some (link) even believe that their actions are criminal.

Now, either we can agree that the 'anti' behavior against Mormonism are not the same as 'anti' behavior against the Scientologists, or we can try to go down the path linking Mormons to Scientology and hence the criticism are the same. Which way would you prefer? If you want the latter, then I admit- I'm out.

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The antagonism against certain groups, races, individuals, countries, or any other entity isn't what Elder Maxwell had in mind. (I should know, I can read minds!) I believe he was getting at the 'anti' sentiment where people who have nothing to do with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints make DVDs and distribute media attacking our beliefs, fuss, scream and whine when their flock or family members join us with only baseless accusations of 'cultism' is what Elder Maxwell is talking about. I visited numerous Christian bookstores throughout the East Bay area of Northern Calfornia and found that Mormons are often the target of American Christian criticism. It just took a few moments perusing the "Cults" section of each store.

The accusations against Scientology seem to have a more legitimate base than that. Some (link) even believe that their actions are criminal.

Now, either we can agree that the 'anti' behavior against Mormonism are not the same as 'anti' behavior against the Scientologists, or we can try to go down the path linking Mormons to Scientology and hence the criticism are the same. Which way would you prefer? If you want the latter, then I admit- I'm out.

Wow, you are quite the mind reader ;)

I too have spent some time in "christian" bookstores and agree that if they even have a book on mormonsim, it is usually one that is written from an "anti" stance. I think that mormons are more a target of "American Chrisitan criticism" because "American Christian" leaders see mormons as blurring the lines of what is considered traditional christian orthodoxy, i.e. mainstream christianity. They consider it their duty to warn their followers that mormonism is not "real" christianity.

And my reference to scientology was just an analogy, not an attempt to in any way compare mormonism to scientology, nor the "attacks" against either group (they were just the first group that came to mind as being marginalized due to their peculiar beliefs).

You can take a less controversial "religion" than scientology, but the sentiment is just the same. Mormons have endured much less tragedy, anti sentiment and outright scorn than Jews, for instance, but this statement could very well be applicable as spoken by a Jewish leader as it is a Mormon leader, no?

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We can sit around and compare groups that have been persecuted and abused thoughout history, but, honestly people, there is one group that has been persecuted and tormented thoughout all of history and if you ask them, they will tell you that it's true in a heartbeat. They are the worst bunch of whiners and complainers and they let everybody know just how persecuted they are. If you talk to one of them, even the Jews during WWII can't hold a candle against what they are going through. They are teenagers.

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How is this statement exclusive to Mormonism?

The speaker is limiting his observation and statement made on this particular occasion specifically to the Mormon Church and is talking about the Church, not others, and not comparing others. The great and wonderful things about the LDS Church and that can be said about it take nothing away from other churches.

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The speaker is limiting his observation and statement made on this particular occasion specifically to the Mormon Church and is talking about the Church, not others, and not comparing others. The great and wonderful things about the LDS Church and that can be said about it take nothing away from other churches.

I get that, but then you'd agree that this statement would be appropriate for any number of churches that have been the victim of "anti" sentiment, correct?

Thus, any such church could claim that they must be true because "look at all those who fight against us....the only explanation is that they are afraid of the truth that we have."

Thus, truth as evidenced through "anti" sentiment is not exclusive to the LDS church. Of course I know that this is not the method in which TBMs find their truth, it just seems to me a very peculiar/odd statement that could be applied to almost any religion.

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I get that, but then you'd agree that this statement would be appropriate for any number of churches that have been the victim of "anti" sentiment, correct?

Thus, any such church could claim that they must be true because "look at all those who fight against us....the only explanation is that they are afraid of the truth that we have."

Thus, truth as evidenced through "anti" sentiment is not exclusive to the LDS church. Of course I know that this is not the method in which TBMs find their truth, it just seems to me a very peculiar/odd statement that could be applied to almost any religion.

It could be, but that was not his intention, if you know what I mean =). I am not even sure he solely meant enemy people of the church.

I will tell you something I know, and feel. When I try to do the right things, I can feel a 'pressure' going in the opposite direction. It is hard, and confuses me sometimes, but when I realize it's there, sometimes I remember, that there will be opposition when you are doing the right thing. It remind me to think about why this is right, and that people oftentimes will be pressured contrary to do things right.

That isn't to say it's in all of the cases. But it does remind me, of why I have my testimony. It is a reminder, so to say =).

When I see the contrary, it reminds me =D.

Best Wishes,

TAO

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There is a poster on this site who has the following quote in their footer, which I find fascinating:

"If the Church were not true, our enemies would be bored rather than threatened, and acquiescent rather than anxious. Hell is moved only when things move Heavenward." Neal A. Maxwell

How is this statement exclusive to Mormonism?

Do people who hate jews feel threatened by their religion? Are they anxious because of their religion? The same about other religions or teachings.

Many people who hate jews don't hate their religion. Many people who hate mormons hate their religion. Jews suffered much more than mormons, but it is the mormon doctrine that is hated, not judaism.

I read many times how people would say:"We hate mormonism". But how many times people say:"We hate judaism"? Or "We hate Scientology"? Or :"We hate Eastern Orthodox doctrine"?

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I get that, but then you'd agree that this statement would be appropriate for any number of churches that have been the victim of "anti" sentiment, correct?

Thus, any such church could claim that they must be true because "look at all those who fight against us....the only explanation is that they are afraid of the truth that we have."

Thus, truth as evidenced through "anti" sentiment is not exclusive to the LDS church. Of course I know that this is not the method in which TBMs find their truth, it just seems to me a very peculiar/odd statement that could be applied to almost any religion.

I think it is reasonable that the statement can be applied to almost any church in its efforts to promote good, and I think Elder Maxwell would agree. Good and evil will always be attacked by evil or foolishness (it is foolish to become “anti-evil (perceived or real)” rather than “pro-good”). And some “anti” sentiment is anti-good and some is just foolish. Both the good and the evil that reacts against it occur in degrees.

It is interesting to me that “Heavenward” forces are not moved to destroy evil simply when a “Hell”-driven agenda is realized; they are already acting independently for righteousness’ sake. On the other hand, “Hell” typically does nothing until it is moved into action when it sees things move “Heavenward” -- not acting is unrighteous, and so it reacts against the righteous influences that disrupt the status quo by inspiring positive action.

Considering the source, I would also say that the quote is egocentric as far as identifying which church is really completely true and merits having truly hell-inspired enemies. The statement is being preached to the choir.

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