Jump to content

Burning In The Bossom, The Operation Of The Holy Spirit, And Repentance


inquiringmind

Recommended Posts

Latter Day Saints speak of a burning in the bossom, and I assume you view this as an operation of The Holy Spirit (and different from the gift of The Holy Spirit?)

What if a person thought they had this burning in the bossom, and told themselves it was just thier own feelings, and so paid no attention to it?

Is there anything in the BOM, or other Mormon scripture, that would indicate that such a person could still repent (or would that be the blasphemy of the Spirit)?

What if someone has asked God if there's any hope for them, and hasn't received an answer?

Does that mean there's no hope?

Link to comment

Latter Day Saints speak of a burning in the bossom, and I assume you view this as an operation of The Holy Spirit (and different from the gift of The Holy Spirit?)

What if a person thought they had this burning in the bossom, and told themselves it was just thier own feelings, and so paid no attention to it?

Is there anything in the BOM, or other Mormon scripture, that would indicate that such a person could still repent (or would that be the blasphemy of the Spirit)?

What if someone has asked God if there's any hope for them, and hasn't received an answer?

Does that mean there's no hope?

Read about Amulek in Alma 10: “Nevertheless, after all this, I never have known much of the ways of the Lord, and his mysteries and marvelous power. I said I never had known much of these things; but behold, I mistake, for I have seen much of his mysteries and his marvelous power; yea, even in the preservation of the lives of this people. Nevertheless, I did harden my heart, for I was called many times and I would not hear; therefore I knew concerning these things, yet I would not know; therefore I went on rebelling against God, in the wickedness of my heart, even until the fourth day of this seventh month, which is in the tenth year of the reign of the judges.” While he doesn’t specifically refer to the burning of the bosom not, his experiences were just as compelling, he refused them, and then repented.

Link to comment

What if a person thought they had this burning in the bossom, and told themselves it was just thier own feelings, and so paid no attention to it?

I think that this happens every day. It's called being human, and not always being "in tune" with the Spirit. It seems very rare that the voice of the Spirit is clear and undeniable. A lot of it is left up to us to stretch our faith muscles a little to trust that it was the Spirit speaking, and not our own feelings. That is a hard thing to trust in, sometimes. But, when we can quiet your own minds and humble ourselves enough to receive it's instruction, then we begin to see things which ordinarily would have been thought coincidental or happenstance as miraculous and divinely directed. Then, the voice of the Spirit becomes more clear.

What if someone has asked God if there's any hope for them, and hasn't received an answer?

I've had a lot of questions. Still do. I've pleaded for understanding many nights, only to be answered with deafening silence. Sometimes I think God just is just waiting for us to take that step of faith in the dark and figure it out ourselves. Other times, I feel like His answers to me are: "I've given you everything. It's all before you. Now it's up to you to believe." But sometimes I feel like He doesn't make that very easy.

I don't understand everything, and I don't have a perfect testimony of all things. I may not develop a perfect testimony in my lifetime. Nevertheless, I stumble my way through the dark and try real hard to listen to that quiet whisper calling me from the distance. I don't believe that the Lord asks us to obtain a perfect knowledge, only a perfect hope.

Link to comment
... hasn't received an answer?

from C.S. Lewis, "A Grief Observed" - his notes on dealing with the loss of his wife...

…Meanwhile, where is God? This is one of the most disquieting symptoms. When you are happy, so happy that you have no sense of needing Him, so happy that you are tempted to feel His claims upon you as an interruption, if you remember yourself and turn to Him with gratitude and praise, you will be – or so it feels – welcomed with open arms. But go to Him when your need is desperate, when all other help is vain, and what do you find? A door slammed in your face, and a sound of bolting and double bolting on the inside. After that, silence. You may as well turn away. The longer you wait, the more emphatic the silence will become. There are no lights in the windows. It might be an empty house. Was it ever inhabited? It seemed so once. And that seeming was as strong as this. What can this mean? Why is He so present a commander in our time of prosperity and so very absent a help in time of trouble?

I tried to put some of these thoughts to c. (his brother) this afternoon. He reminded me that the same thing happened to Christ: ‘Why hast thou forsaken me?’ I know. Does that make it easier to understand?

Not that I am (I think) in much danger of ceasing to believe in God. The real danger is of coming to believe such dreadful things about Him. The conclusion I dread is not ‘ so there’s no God after all,’ but ‘so this is what God’s really like. Deceive yourself no longer.’

…. You never know how much you believe anything until its truth or falsehood becomes a matter of life and death to you. It is easy to say you believe a rope to be strong and sound as long as you are merely using it to cord a box. But suppose you had to hang by that rope over a precipice. Wouldn’t you then first discover how much you really trusted it?... Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief.

I thought I trusted the rope until it mattered to me whether it would bear me. Now it matters, and I find I didn’t….

Bridge players tell me that there must be some money on the game ‘or else people won’t take it seriously.’ Apparently it’s like that. Your bid – for God or no God, for a good God or the Cosmic sadist, for eternal life or nonentity – will never discover how serious it was until the stakes are raised horribly high, until you find that you are playing not for counters or for sixpences but for every penny you have in the world. Nothing less will shake a man – or at any rate a man like me – out of his merely verbal thinking and his merely notional beliefs. He has to be knocked silly before he comes to his senses. Only torture will bring out the truth. Only under torture does he discover it himself.

… the more we believe that God hurts only to heal, the less we can believe that there is any use in begging for tenderness…

This is where he comes out of it – where he learns the secret of learning how to submit:

.. Something quite unexpected has happened. It came this morning early. For various reasons, not in themselves at all mysterious, my heart was lighter than it had been for many weeks…It was as if the listing of the sorrow removed a barrier…

Why has no one told me these things? How easily I might have misjudged another man in the same situation? I might have said, ‘He’s got over it. He’s forgotten his wife,’ when the truth was, He remembers her better because he has partly got over it.

Such was the fact. And I believe I can make sense out of it. You can’t see anything properly while your eyes are blurred with tears. You can’t in most things, get what you want if you want it too desperately: anyways, you can’t get the best out of it. ‘Now! Let’s have a real good talk’ reduces everyone to silence. ‘ I must get a good sleep tonight’ ushers in hours of wakefulness. Delicious drinks are wasted on a really ravenous thirst. Is it similarly the very intensity of the longing that draws the iron curtain, that makes us feel we are staring into a vacuum when we think about our dead? ‘Them as asks’ (at any rate ‘as asks too importunately’) don’t get. Perhaps can’t.

And so, perhaps, with God. I have gradually been coming to feel that the door is no longer shut and bolted. Was it my own frantic need that slammed it in my face? The time when there is nothing at all in your soul except a cry for help may be just the time when God can’t give it: you are like a drowning man who can’t be helped because he clutches and grabs. Perhaps your own reiterated cries deafen you to the voice you hoped to hear.

On the other hand, “Knock and it shall be opened.’ But does this knocking mean hammering and kicking the door like a maniac? And there is also ‘To him that hath shall be given.’ After all, you must have a capacity to receive, or even omnipotence can’t give. Perhaps your own passion temporarily destroys the capacity.

For all sorts of mistakes are possible when you are dealing with Him. Long ago, before we were married, H. was haunted all one morning as she went about her work with the obscure sense of God (so to speak) at her elbow, demanding her attention. And of course, not being a perfected saint, she had the feeling that it would be a question, as it usually is, of some unrepented sin or tedious duty. At last she gave in – I know how one puts it off – and faced Him. But the message (was not a burden) the message was ‘I want to give you something’ and instantly she entered into joy….

Link to comment

:)

Latter Day Saints speak of a burning in the bossom, and I assume you view this as an operation of The Holy Spirit (and different from the gift of The Holy Spirit?)

What if a person thought they had this burning in the bossom, and told themselves it was just thier own feelings, and so paid no attention to it?

Is there anything in the BOM, or other Mormon scripture, that would indicate that such a person could still repent (or would that be the blasphemy of the Spirit)?

What if someone has asked God if there's any hope for them, and hasn't received an answer?

Does that mean there's no hope?

i,m not real sure what your question is because its not always a "burning in the bosom" for me; yes i get that warm feeling sometimes during a baptism and such; but most the time for me its pure and simple undisputable gift of knowledge that canott be denied. {no repentance their!}:)

Link to comment

Latter Day Saints speak of a burning in the bossom, and I assume you view this as an operation of The Holy Spirit (and different from the gift of The Holy Spirit?)

What if a person thought they had this burning in the bossom, and told themselves it was just thier own feelings, and so paid no attention to it?

Is there anything in the BOM, or other Mormon scripture, that would indicate that such a person could still repent (or would that be the blasphemy of the Spirit)?

Yeah, I occasionally do that myself. Then I say to myself later... 'owa tagu fiam' (say it out loud to see what it means)... and repent... and the Lord is usually pretty merciful, and directs me with instructions towards righteous things which will help me be better in the future. Repentance is good, and will always help.

What if someone has asked God if there's any hope for them, and hasn't received an answer?

Have faith, my friend, to say yes. Do you believe he can, and will answer you? Until you do, you won't recieve an answer =). And I'll tell you what... you have faith in him, and he will provide you with comfort in times of trouble and help when you most need it like you can never imagine.

It truly works.

Does that mean there's no hope?

There is never no hope, my friend, until you give up. Never give up. Always turn back to him. One of my favorite quotes from President Monson, last conference, was:

Should there be anything amiss in your life, there is open to you a way out. Cease any unrighteousness. Talk with your bishop. Whatever the problem, it can be worked out through proper repentance. You can become clean once again. Said the Lord, speaking of those who repent, “Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow,”3 “and I, the Lord, remember them no more.”4

I make tons of mistakes in life. More than anybody can probably imagine, save the Lord... and maybe a few others. But this seemingly basic statements says so much... it says... we can work our way out... no matter the problem, we can work our way out.

My friend, that is a great mercy and brilliant blessing. Some may mock President Monson, but that man, is a prophet. He has the right spirit. And this is what he said.

We read, in 2 Nephi 9:50 (and also in Isaiah 55:1):

Come, my brethren, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters; and he that hath no money, come buy and eat; yea, come buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Let me tell you how merciful the Lord is! He is merciful beyond compare. Every single trial I go through is a sign of his love. I struggle through it, I come to a better knowledge, and I love him for it. I fail often, but his mercy picks me back up!

I think I had once wondered why SoPs cannot obtain any forgiveness, and I think I know why...

It's because they will never ask for it... they will never turn away.

I am not sure if that is correct... but whether it is or isn't, let us let God's judgment be enough. And his mercy too, if it applies to them, to a degree.

And if his mercy applies to them to a degree, there is no doubt that it will apply to you too. And even if it doesn't, he will certainly have room enough in his mercy for you!

Best Wishes,

TAO

And my post is probably wrong in several areas =P. Bleh XD. Forgive me =/.

Link to comment

Latter Day Saints speak of a burning in the bossom, and I assume you view this as an operation of The Holy Spirit (and different from the gift of The Holy Spirit?)

What if a person thought they had this burning in the bossom, and told themselves it was just thier own feelings, and so paid no attention to it?

Is there anything in the BOM, or other Mormon scripture, that would indicate that such a person could still repent (or would that be the blasphemy of the Spirit)?

What if someone has asked God if there's any hope for them, and hasn't received an answer?

Does that mean there's no hope?

I think these are good articles describing how the reality isn't always the same as the expectation:

http://lds.org/liaho...eng&query=Bosom

http://lds.org/new-e...eng&query=Bosom

Personally I rarely experience the Spirit as a "burning in the bosom", rather it is usually a sense of mental and spiritual quickening, enlightenment or a "burning" that involved my whole body from the top of my head down through the tips of my toes. This is just as consistent with scriptural description of the effect of the Holy Ghost/Spirit upon men as the "burning in the bosom". It is unfortunate imo when people equate experience of the Holy Spirit with the burning and do not understand that he touches us in a myriad of ways, suiting his language to our needs and abilities.

Another way to describe that particular version of the Spirit would be "heart burning within" as in Luke 24.

31And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

<a name="32" class="bookmark-anchor dontHighlight"> 32And they said one to another, Did not our aheart bburn within us, while he ctalked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...