Making Agreements With Your Mouth...

[Mordecai]

We've discussed this in the past, but I've been rereading John Gee's Early Christians and had some thoughts and questions. First of all, why does Paul, in the book of Romans, puts so much emphasis on using the mouth to make the covenant. We would put emphasis on baptism or partaking of the Sacrament, but Paul insists that the terms are "agreed upon toward salvation... by means of the mouth" (Romans 10:9-10, John Gee translator).

Furthermore, in Romans 10:14, Gee's translation, Paul inquires, "How shall they make an agreement with him whom they have not obeyed?" which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Any thoughts?

Not being a scholar, my input may be of little value. However, I was thinking that LDS folks do agree to the terms by means of the mouth in two different settings: prior to baptism in priesthood interviews and after the Sacrament prayer. Still, it is surprising to me, the emphasis placed upon this by Paul. As far as "How shall they make an agreement with him whom they have not obeyed?" I am at a loss.

[Questing Beast]

The question is addressing lip service. To make a covenant with Christ/God with your mouth, then not obey the commandments of that covenant, breaks the agreement/covenant; or prevents it from existing in the first place. Lying to God is the first form of hypocrisy. It is the very same thing as lying to yourself....

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

We've discussed this in the past, but I've been rereading John Gee's Early Christians and had some thoughts and questions. First of all, why does Paul, in the book of Romans, puts so much emphasis on using the mouth to make the covenant. We would put emphasis on baptism or partaking of the Sacrament, but Paul insists that the terms are "agreed upon toward salvation... by means of the mouth" (Romans 10:9-10, John Gee translator).

Furthermore, in Romans 10:14, Gee's translation, Paul inquires, "How shall they make an agreement with him whom they have not obeyed?" which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Any thoughts?

Not being a scholar, my input may be of little value. However, I was thinking that LDS folks do agree to the terms by means of the mouth in two different settings: prior to baptism in priesthood interviews and after the Sacrament prayer. Still, it is surprising to me, the emphasis placed upon this by Paul. As far as "How shall they make an agreement with him whom they have not obeyed?" I am at a loss.

It is all about audience…Paul was teaching the Romans. Or the Saints in Rome with baby food because they were babies. Paul had to be baptized to have his sins remitted, they were not forgiven on the road to Damascus. Simply saying “Lord what would thou have me”, did not remit his sins. He was a man of action and works. The Romans were being introduced to a different doctrine, never having lived under any Mosaic Law.

[Mordecai]

After sleeping on this, it occurred to me that when we partake of the Sacrament, we are making an agreement by means of the mouth. That would make more sense. If you throw out the word "confess" completely and just go with "make an agreement," I suppose that could be what he means.

...or prevents it from existing in the first place...

I can see that as explaining my second question. The tense doesn't sound right to my ears to interpret in this way, but it is a translation. Perhaps the translation is a bit rough.

[Mordecai]

I realized, when I looked closely at the side by side KJV and John Gee version, it looks like Gee screwed up. Whoops! According to his own sources, pistis="put up collateral." So it should read, "How can they put up collateral for someone whom they have not obeyed," which makes sense, if you think about it. If you're not going to obey, you certainly are not going to put up collateral, especially since the collateral is a broken heart and contrite spirit!

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rom&c=10&v=14&t=KJV#conc/14

...pistis from "collateral, guarantee"... homologein from "to agree to terms, accept an agreement, enter into a legal contract, promise"...

[Mordecai]

[bump]Just trying to get some feedback. Perhaps no one who is on this board is an expert on this, but I'd still like some feedback on how to read this.