KEP presentation by Mr. Shryver

[Ceeboo]

Hello good people,

Mr. Shryver has recently posted (in another thread)a link where I saw, for the first time in total, his presentation on the "Meaning and purpose of the KEP".(Thanks for sharing the link)

I was wondering what the opinions/perspectives/thoughts were (from other devout Mormons) concerning his KEP presentation.

What say you?

BTW, for what it may be worth, it is my opinion that no matter what your personal beliefs happen to be, William deserves a lot of credit for a very well done presentation.

It was super cool, for me anyway, to see him in this light (A brilliant guy with obvious gifts, to be sure)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I enjoyed it quite a bit and found the main arguments compelleing. Specifically the main point for the KEP (Which is not the part about them being a cypher). Any way I tend to mess up on the details so I will let Will or some one else answer any questions.

Will is a bright guy.

[Ron Beron]

Hello good people,

Mr. Shryver has recently posted (in another thread)a link where I saw, for the first time in total, his presentation on the "Meaning and purpose of the KEP".(Thanks for sharing the link)

I was wondering what the opinions/perspectives/thoughts were (from other devout Mormons) concerning his KEP presentation.

What say you?

BTW, for what it may be worth, it is my opinion that no matter what your personal beliefs happen to be, William deserves a lot of credit for a very well done presentation.

It was super cool, for me anyway, to see him in this light (A brilliant guy with obvious gifts, to be sure)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Having been privy to the actual presentation last year I think that your last comment says it about right. I have never spent a lot of attention on the the KEP, but Bro. Shryver's comments were excellent and well thought out.

[bookofmormontruth]

Can you share the link? Thanks

[Deborah]

I ditto Ron's remarks. I was there when Will presented it and it made a lot of sense to me, but then I've never been concerned about the KEP.

[Ceeboo]

Can you share the link? Thanks

Hello BoMT,

If I knew how, I most certainly would. (Sorry, perhaps someone who is much more computer savy can help)

Thanks for the replies!

Peace,

Ceeboo

[livy111us]

Can you share the link? Thanks

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/

I think it is wonderful what Will has done.

[Chris Smith]

This blog post has links to some video commentary on Schryver's paper.

[William Schryver]

Can you share the link? Thanks

The Meaning and Purpose of the Kirtland Egyptian Papers

[bookofmormontruth]

The Meaning and Purpose of the Kirtland Egyptian Papers

Absolutely fascinating William! Never heard of KEP until now.

Actually makes me want to study the scriptures more so I hope to see additional research. Would also hate to be in the shoes of critics against the Lord's Church.

[Dr.JD]

Absolutely fascinating William! Never heard of KEP until now.

Actually makes me want to study the scriptures more so I hope to see additional research. Would also hate to be in the shoes of critics against the Lord's Church.

Well you know what they say, "Before you criticize anyone walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them you will be a mile away, and have their shoes."

[Ceeboo]

This blog post has links to some video commentary on Schryver's paper.

Hey Chris,

WAY COOL to see the human faces/voices that go with some of the posters on these boards (Thanks for posting this)

BTW, as I watched the video of you all talking in a perfect circle, I was hoping to see a game of scholarly duck duck goose to bust out. Never happened .

Peace,

Ceeboo

[bookofmormontruth]

This blog post has links to some video commentary on Schryver's paper.

I went back to the archives and anything William has posted, you were on it like white on rice.

Maybe it is just me (I will accept that), but what is the obsession with William? Or is just with the Lord's Church in general?

[Jaybear]

... but what is the obsession with William? Or is just with the Lord's Church in general?

Will's KEP theory was heralded by the powers that be as a "game changer". Will has himself claimed that his explanation "effectively rendered moot" substantial criticism of the Book of Abraham. With all the hype and hoopla leading up to the presentation how could anyone as knowlegeable as Chris on the subject not be interested?

[bookofmormontruth]

Will's KEP theory was heralded by the powers that be as a "game changer". Will has himself claimed that his explanation "effectively rendered moot" substantial criticism of the Book of Abraham. With all the hype and hoopla leading up to the presentation how could anyone as knowlegeable as Chris on the subject not be interested?

Sorry, I am not impressed with armchair academics from a self described "student".

But I do understand the desperation in trying to discredit the Lord's Church and His servants.

[Ceeboo]

Sorry, I am not impressed with armchair academics from a self described "student".

But I do understand the desperation in trying to discredit the Lord's Church and His servants.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[jskains]

I like some of Chris's buzz wording. I watched his interview, and like many others, he uses a bit of authorative manipluation. Like "I've seen evidence that shows..." type things. The always mysterious specially accessed evidence that always seems to be in the hands of critics.

It goes along with all the critics who were "high ups" in the Church hiarchy and every other patterned speech I hear over and over....

I need to start using these terms more often. Then people would listen to me more.

[Chris Smith]

Maybe it is just me (I will accept that), but what is the obsession with William? Or is just with the Lord's Church in general?

I am a little obsessed with Mormons, I guess. I love you guys.

But the KEP is a particular research interest of mine, so that probably explains your observation.

[Chris Smith]

I like some of Chris's buzz wording. I watched his interview, and like many others, he uses a bit of authorative manipluation. Like "I've seen evidence that shows..." type things. The always mysterious specially accessed evidence that always seems to be in the hands of critics.

I've shared much of my evidence before on this message board, and I also explained some of it in the video. There's only so much one can do when one is speaking off the cuff without prepared notes.

[Vance]

I like some of Chris's buzz wording. I watched his interview, and like many others, he uses a bit of authorative manipluation. Like "I've seen evidence that shows..." type things. The always mysterious specially accessed evidence that always seems to be in the hands of critics.

It's a variation of the "If you knew what I know, you would agree with me" mime.

[Chris Smith]

By the way, William's FAIR presentation was largely a response to the following paper by myself: “The Dependence of Abraham 1:1–3 on the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar,” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 29 (2009): 38–54.

Since Will's paper was directly contradicting my argument, it's only natural that I was interested in the presentation and the ensuing discussions about it. In fact, William encouraged this interest. I was specifically invited by him to attend the conference and hear his paper. He even got me in for free. I was also specifically invited by Kerry Shirts to be in that video. This was all done in a spirit of friendly scholarly exchange. So the idea that I was at the conference stalking Will or desperately crusading against the Lord's Church is simply mistaken.

[Ceeboo]

By the way, William's FAIR presentation was largely a response to the following paper by myself: “The Dependence of Abraham 1:1–3 on the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar,” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 29 (2009): 38–54.

Since Will's paper was directly contradicting my argument, it's only natural that I was interested in the presentation and the ensuing discussions about it. In fact, William encouraged this interest. I was specifically invited by him to attend the conference and hear his paper. He even got me in for free. I was also specifically invited by Kerry Shirts to be in that video. This was all done in a spirit of friendly scholarly exchange. So the idea that I was at the conference stalking Will or desperately crusading against the Lord's Church is simply mistaken.

Not impressed and I certainly don't buy it coming from a "student" like you.

Peace,

Ceeboo

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

By the way, William's FAIR presentation was largely a response to the following paper by myself: “The Dependence of Abraham 1:1–3 on the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar,” John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 29 (2009): 38–54.

Since Will's paper was directly contradicting my argument, it's only natural that I was interested in the presentation and the ensuing discussions about it. In fact, William encouraged this interest. I was specifically invited by him to attend the conference and hear his paper. He even got me in for free. I was also specifically invited by Kerry Shirts to be in that video. This was all done in a spirit of friendly scholarly exchange. So the idea that I was at the conference stalking Will or desperately crusading against the Lord's Church is simply mistaken.

I enjoyed your comments too. I am glad you were able to participate in the event. Will you be writing anything formally on teh subject of Will's presentation? Perhaps you have already. I don't participate as much as I used to on this board.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Not impressed and I certainly don't buy it coming from a "student" like you.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Ha. I got a good laugh here.

[jskains]

I've shared much of my evidence before on this message board, and I also explained some of it in the video. There's only so much one can do when one is speaking off the cuff without prepared notes.

I don't know. Even in that interview, your "evidences" seem to be logical fallacies based on lack of evidence, not absolute evidence. Like you say "You'd be hard pressed to prove these were written eariler". So you don't have solid evidence, you assume based on lack of evidence.

*shrug*

JMS