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Great Soul: Mahatma Gandhi and His Struggle with India


WalkerW

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Gandhi is truly inspirational. Truly.

It's interesting though that his humilty and kindness did not translate to his own family. He was often abusive (emotionally/verbally) to his wife, and very much disregarded her feelings. He wasn't a good father in any sense of the word.

It just goes to show that even the best of us has weaknesses.

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I don't even think Gandhi was a great guy. In most ways he caused more problems then he solved.

The cult of him being almost a Christian saint that has been built up is a fabrication built up by the Indian government. For some reason this myth is pervasive. Most likely because Dr. King used him as a symbol in the Civil Rights movement.

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I don't even think Gandhi was a great guy. In most ways he caused more problems then he solved.

The cult of him being almost a Christian saint that has been built up is a fabrication built up by the Indian government. For some reason this myth is pervasive. Most likely because Dr. King used him as a symbol in the Civil Rights movement.

Agreed...

He may have gotten the Great Britain out, but left a divided Nation and to this day India and Pakistan remain in a constant state of war.

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Agreed...

He may have gotten the Great Britain out, but left a divided Nation and to this day India and Pakistan remain in a constant state of war.

And his getting Great Britain out was done terribly. Gandhi never seemed to realize that Britain was (by the standards of the day) a relatively moral nation. Reading the arguments about colonialism around World War II one of the British arguments for staying was that if they left the upper castes would get revenge on the lower castes for the rough equality Britain imposed. When the British left many died from purges and retaliation.

If Gandhi had succeeded during the War in driving the British out then the Japanese would have occupied (at least) parts of India and we would have seen how well his non-resistance worked against a violent imperialist power. If he had been in the area conquered he and his followers would have been shot within the month. Standard Japanese occupational policy.

Gandhi taught universal love but he didn't live it. He flip-flopped and left followers out to dry. He weakened the war against fascism with his naivete. He brought Indian independence to a fractured nation that couldn't take it and watched as violence erupted. Now the entirety of India reveres him and being a supporter at least in name is mandatory to gain political power. India is also one of the most messed up modern nations in existence.

Thanks Gandhi.

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Agreed...

He may have gotten the Great Britain out, but left a divided Nation and to this day India and Pakistan remain in a constant state of war.

Part of that was caused by Great Britain itself. They chose to push splitting Pakistan in order to check Indian growth. The result was ethnic cleansing on a massive scale. I don't know if Ghandi meant for the ill that he produced, but I cannot fault him for wanting the freedom of his people. If you want to see someone deifiied, look up at the dome of our Capitol building.

apotheosis_of_washington.jpg

The Capitol building has an empty tomb that was originally meant to hold George Washington.

Apotheosis_War_1.jpg

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King wasn't exactly saintly either. See Michael Eric Dyson, I May Not Get There With You: The True Martin Luther King, Jr. (Free Press, 2000).

I agree but at least Dr. King was politically savvy and managed to unite a disparate group and accomplished most of his goals. Most of us would agree those goals were good. I give him full credit for that despite his personal failings.

Gandhi just doesn't seem to have accomplished anything by comparison.

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Nope.

I highly recommend it. The story is set in a fictional Indian railroad town during the months leading up to partition. The atmosphere is tense because everybody knows that the British are leaving, but nobody is quite sure what will follow. The author was a British officer whose family had been serving in India for about 300 years, one of his ancestors had even married an Indian. That was considered scandalous even a century or so later. The book is really about the search for identity. The main protagonists are Anglo-Indian, that is, of mixed British and Indian ancestry (Boris Karloff was actually Anglo-Indian too). They look down upon Indians and consider themselves British, but are despised by the British. Their choices in life were limited to the railroad.

Victoria Jones is sick of the traditional life of an Anglo-Indian, and sick of her fiancee Patrick. Patrick appears to be a stereotypical Anglo-Indian, trying too hard to be more English than the English. Victoria tries to be Indian, and then tries to be English, but can't give up her identity. They dream that in the new India, their children can be anyone they want to. The book does a superb job as well at exploring stereotypes and subtly overturning them. John Masters shows that there is a lot of truth to stereotypes (they don't tend to appear for no reason whatsoever), but each person is a complex individual who never entirely fits the mold. There is also action, suspense and stunning historical details. For instance, how Britain began supporting and protecting Gandhi once they realised that he was vastly preferable to a communist takeover.

The movie, OTOH, stinks.

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Part of that was caused by Great Britain itself. They chose to push splitting Pakistan in order to check Indian growth. The result was ethnic cleansing on a massive scale. I don't know if Ghandi meant for the ill that he produced, but I cannot fault him for wanting the freedom of his people. If you want to see someone deifiied, look up at the dome of our Capitol building.

Actually, Gandhi worked how to united India and eliminate the difference between class. He certainly didn't want to see India divided. In fact, He was assassinated because began working to reunite the Muslims and the Hindus. He went out of his way to work against the principle of the untouchables.

It's interesting, Gandhi saw himself as a failure because the British did partition the nation. He blamed himself for being and unworthy instrument.

He had taught the reason they failed at winning independence was because they failed to learn how to govern themselves and fix the problems between fellow Indians. I don't think he was naive to the magnitude of what he was trying to do. Nor to his own weakness holding his back. He was bad to his wife at times. But everything I've read about their relationship indicates to me that he learned how rough he was and that he and her became very close. Is there a man alive who hasn't treated his wife badly atleast once, save the Savior himself? Even innocently. And I know we do alot of things in our ignorance to hurt the women in our lives.

The World would be a much better place if more people lived the principles Gandhi taught. Even if he was less than perfect.

I wonder what the Priesthood could accomplish if we were united and turned the other cheek. We need to develop that kind of faith. Because the Lord has promised that He will fight our battles if we let Him. Zion's camp is a testimony to that.

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Actually, Gandhi worked how to united India and eliminate the difference between class. He certainly didn't want to see India divided. In fact, He was assassinated because began working to reunite the Muslims and the Hindus. He went out of his way to work against the principle of the untouchables.

He did try to do this in his own naive way but kicking the British out exacerbated the situation.

It's interesting, Gandhi saw himself as a failure because the British did partition the nation. He blamed himself for being and unworthy instrument.

It think that was foolish Trying to keep India and Pakistan as one nation would have invited an even more terrible civil war.

He had taught the reason they failed at winning independence was because they failed to learn how to govern themselves and fix the problems between fellow Indians. I don't think he was naive to the magnitude of what he was trying to do. Nor to his own weakness holding his back.

Gandhi continually flip-flopped on his plans. He would try organized non-violence, his followers would be arrested, it would start having an effect, and he'd back off.

Caste-based Hinduism cannot survive as it is and be the dominant religion of a modern industrialized democratic nation. Gandhi seemed to think it could with his ideas of 'love'.

He was bad to his wife at times. But everything I've read about their relationship indicates to me that he learned how rough he was and that he and her became very close. Is there a man alive who hasn't treated his wife badly atleast once, save the Savior himself? Even innocently. And I know we do alot of things in our ignorance to hurt the women in our lives.

He left his wife and lived his a male German bodybuilder to whom he wrote at least pseudo-romantic letters. Some (me included) believe he was a homosexual. He hated heterosexual sex and his descriptions of it suggest it was a perversion. He was cruel to his female nieces. We would label him today as a child abuser. Lest I be accused of 'Presentism' most of the world at the time would have said the same thing of him.

He reportedly laughed about sending his niece out in an area where sexual assault was common when she annoyed him. He was a weirdo and a misogynist.

The World would be a much better place if more people lived the principles Gandhi taught. Even if he was less than perfect.

I could not disagree more. Have you seen his advice to the Jews of Germany? If Captain Moroni had lived Gandhi's principles the Book of Mormon would have been only half as long. He addressed Hitler and Mussolini as friends and saw them as redeemable but the British as evil. He was dangerously naive.

I wonder what the Priesthood could accomplish if we were united and turned the other cheek.

Redder cheeks? While we are commanded that at times that is the necessary response we should not seek those times out.

We need to develop that kind of faith.

Gandhi's faith? He backed out of his nonviolent revolt routinely when it got hard. His faith was in a kind of vague theism that bordered on theosophy.

Because the Lord has promised that He will fight our battles if we let Him. Zion's camp is a testimony to that.

Zion's camp failed due to the lack of faith of those there. I agree the Lord will fight our battles if we establish Zion.

Gandhi wasn't establishing Zion. If he had succeeded in booting the British out and the Japanese had gotten in Gandhi and his supporters would have been rounded up and shot. He seemed to think Jews passively conforming to the Third Reich would melt the heart of Hitler and his followers. Sometimes this works. We have examples in the Book of Mormon. In this case he was very very wrong.

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