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Where in the New World did the Lehites plant the seeds they brought from the Old?


Ariarates

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When the Lehites left Jerusalem, they brought along seeds which they planted on arrival in the New World. Here’s the gist of the story:

1 Nephi 8:1. And it came to pass that we had gathered together all manner of seeds of every kind, both of grain of every kind, and also of the seeds of fruit of every kind.

1 Nephi 18:6. And it came to pass that on the morrow, after we had prepared all things, much fruits and meat from the wilderness, and honey in abundance, and provisions according to that which the Lord had commanded us, we did go down into the ship, with all our loading and our seeds, and whatsoever thing we had brought with us, every one according to his age; wherefore, we did all go down into the ship, with our wives and our children.

1 Nephi 18:23. And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land; and we went forth upon the land, and did pitch our tents; and we did call it the promised land. 24. And it came to pass that we did begin to till the earth, and we began to plant seeds; yea, we did put all our seeds into the earth, which we had brought from the land of Jerusalem. And it came to pass that they did grow exceedingly; wherefore, we were blessed in abundance.

Now, it’s not easy to make seeds from one geographical region grow in another. To “grow exceedingly”, the climates of these regions must match pretty closely. This means that we can use these verses as a clue to determine where the Lehites could have landed, planted their seeds and, straight off the bat, achieved abundant yields. Here’s a fairly decent and easy to use map of climate zones. Based on the BoM texts above, what New World locations do you think are likely candidates?

18_03.jpg

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Now, it’s not easy to make seeds from one geographical region grow in another. To “grow exceedingly”, the climates of these regions must match pretty closely. This means that we can use these verses as a clue to determine where the Lehites could have landed, planted their seeds and, straight off the bat, achieved abundant yields. Here’s a fairly decent and easy to use map of climate zones. Based on the BoM texts above, what New World locations do you think are likely candidates?

18_03.jpg

In the ground.

Seriously the above premis is only partly true. Tropical plants don't transfer to colder areas well but plants from the colder areas usually transplant pretty good. Some even exceedingly well.

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When the Lehites left Jerusalem, they brought along seeds which they planted on arrival in the New World. Here’s the gist of the story:

1 Nephi 8:1. And it came to pass that we had gathered together all manner of seeds of every kind, both of grain of every kind, and also of the seeds of fruit of every kind.

1 Nephi 18:6. And it came to pass that on the morrow, after we had prepared all things, much fruits and meat from the wilderness, and honey in abundance, and provisions according to that which the Lord had commanded us, we did go down into the ship, with all our loading and our seeds, and whatsoever thing we had brought with us, every one according to his age; wherefore, we did all go down into the ship, with our wives and our children.

1 Nephi 18:23. And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land; and we went forth upon the land, and did pitch our tents; and we did call it the promised land. 24. And it came to pass that we did begin to till the earth, and we began to plant seeds; yea, we did put all our seeds into the earth, which we had brought from the land of Jerusalem. And it came to pass that they did grow exceedingly; wherefore, we were blessed in abundance.

Now, it’s not easy to make seeds from one geographical region grow in another. To “grow exceedingly”, the climates of these regions must match pretty closely. This means that we can use these verses as a clue to determine where the Lehites could have landed, planted their seeds and, straight off the bat, achieved abundant yields. Here’s a fairly decent and easy to use map of climate zones. Based on the BoM texts above, what New World locations do you think are likely candidates?

Is this the same "climate zone" map that was found in the Book of Mormon? Big assumption.

The Book of Mormon people (or other people in the Americas who might have learned from their farming techniques) had no problems growing barley.

Neither did the Hohokam with their domesticated barley, the very first ever found in the New World.

Corn (Zea mays) brilliantly survived throughout the Americas.

The Mayans absolutely thrived utilizing their plants in their very own climate.

Looks like the Book of Mormon was dead on accurate.

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In addition to the previous responses, I would like to add that God is perfectly capable of making fertile ground barren, barren ground fertile, and of blessing the endevors of those of his children who are following his directives. If otherwise non-thriving seeds/plants were made to thrive specifically for the Lehites, it would be one of the least of the miracles I believe occurred in the BofM narrative.

Q

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Is this the same "climate zone" map that was found in the Book of Mormon? Big assumption.

I don’t understand what you mean; my BoM does not have a climate zone map.

The Book of Mormon people (or other people in the Americas who might have learned from their farming techniques) had no problems growing barley.

This reference points to various US regions:

Archaeologically, little barley has been recovered from sites in Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, Iowa, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin (Hunter 1992), and also in the Southwest. The earliest midwestern sites from which little barley has been recovered are Koster North and Napoleon Hollow, both Middle Archaic sites in Illinois. Little barley has been found at sites representing every period from the Middle Archaic through the Mississippian, Oneota, and protohistoric periods.

If we rule out areas that don’t border on an ocean (which is all of them), then this doesn't answer the question posed in the OP.

Neither did the Hohokam with their domesticated barley, the very first ever found in the New World.

This reference points to Southern Arizona. Again, no ocean.

Corn (Zea mays) brilliantly survived throughout the Americas.

Brought from the New World to the Old, not relevant to the question posed in the OP.

The Mayans absolutely thrived utilizing their plants in their very own climate.

I’m sure they did but that does not answer the question posed in the OP (not in the least because Classic Maya is about 850 years too late if we assume Lehi landed in the promised land around 600 BC).

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I don’t understand what you mean; my BoM does not have a climate zone map.

This reference points to various US regions:

Archaeologically, little barley has been recovered from sites in Illinois, Missouri, Arkansas, Iowa, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin (Hunter 1992), and also in the Southwest. The earliest midwestern sites from which little barley has been recovered are Koster North and Napoleon Hollow, both Middle Archaic sites in Illinois. Little barley has been found at sites representing every period from the Middle Archaic through the Mississippian, Oneota, and protohistoric periods.

If we rule out areas that don’t border on an ocean (which is all of them), then this doesn't answer the question posed in the OP.

This reference points to Southern Arizona. Again, no ocean.

Brought from the New World to the Old, not relevant to the question posed in the OP.

I’m sure they did but that does not answer the question posed in the OP (not in the least because Classic Maya is about 850 years too late if we assume Lehi landed in the promised land around 600 BC).

Oh come on, you don't even believe in the Book of Mormon, let alone the people of the Book of Mormon landed anywhere. Who are you kidding?

Your OP is just an evasive question to desperately show that what the Book of Mormon states and claims, wasn't remotely possible. All I did was side-step your evasive question and provided evidence that the people thrived in the Americas despite their so called "change of climate".

Sorry to ruin your parade.

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Oh come on, you don't even believe in the Book of Mormon, let alone the people of the Book of Mormon landed anywhere. Who are you kidding? Your OP is just an evasive question to desperately show that what the Book of Mormon states and claims, wasn't remotely possible.

I got kicked out of the other thread so I thought I'd start my own and take Brant's approach: start with the assumption that the text is ancient and see if it matches what we know. I was not trying to kid anyone, I think my views on BoM historicity are well enough known around here.

All I did was side-step your evasive question and provided evidence that the people thrived in the Americas despite their so called "change of climate"

I think you may have misunderstood the OP. I wasn't talking about climate change, I was talking about bringing seeds from one climate to another.

Sorry to ruin your parade.

Really? Now who's kidding who ;-)

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Of course there are plant varieties grown in the New World that are grown in the Old World. This silly argument that Lehi couldn't have grown Old World plants in New World soil is put to rest by the fact that people are growing the same plants in those areas.

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We have enough non-native species invading the Southwest to suggest this isn't any kind of problem at all.

Did you know that "tumbleweed" came from Russia?

Your own map show that Northern Mexico and Southern California have a "Mediterranean" climate- very similar to the Mid East, including Israel. When I have traveled over there, while in relatively unpopulated areas, it is very easy to forget that I am not "at home" when looking at the plants and the foliage.

Here is a list of invasive plants which seem to do quite well upon being "transplanted", unfortunately for us.

California is home to 4,200 native plant species, and is recognized internationally as a "biodiversity hotspot." Approximately 1,800 non-native plants also grow in the wild in the state. A small number of these, approximately 200, are the ones that this Inventory considers invasive. Improved understanding of their impacts will help those working to protect California's treasured biodiversity

Edit: Here's another 12 page book listing invasive species in So Cal including diverse plants like "English Ivy" which one would think would not grow here at all! Included on that list is the "Edible Fig". Who knows- maybe that was actually brought over here by the Nephites?

http://www.cal-ipc.org/ip/inventory/pdf/Inventory1999.pdf

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Ficus Carica, the edible fig.

The Common Fig is widely grown for its edible fruit throughout its natural range in the Mediterranean region, Iran, Pakistan, Greece and northern India, and also in other areas of the world with a similar climate, including Louisiana, California, Georgia, Oregon, Texas, South Carolina, and Washington in the United States, south-western British Columbia in Canada, Nuevo León and Coahuila in northeastern Mexico, as well as Australia, Chile, and South Africa. Figs can also be found in continental climate with hot summer, as far north as Hungary, and can be harvested up to three times per year. Thousands of cultivars, most unnamed, have been developed or come into existence as human migration brought the fig to many places outside its natural range. It has been an important food crop for thousands of years, and was also thought to be highly beneficial in the diet.
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Mares eat oats, and from what I understand Does eat oats, and little lambs have a proclivity towards eating ivy, not wanting to be left out a kid will eat ivy too- How about you?

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Mares eat oats, and from what I understand Does eat oats, and little lambs have a proclivity towards eating ivy, not wanting to be left out a kid will eat ivy too- How about you?

Every morning! But my kids won't eat ivy.

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Now, it’s not easy to make seeds from one geographical region grow in another. To “grow exceedingly”, the climates of these regions must match pretty closely. This means that we can use these verses as a clue to determine where the Lehites could have landed, planted their seeds and, straight off the bat, achieved abundant yields. Here’s a fairly decent and easy to use map of climate zones. Based on the BoM texts above, what New World locations do you think are likely candidates?

Looks like California according to your data. But is this data accurate for 2600 years ago? There is also, iirc, the problem of bacteria at different locales but that may apply more to cattle than to plants. In any case, if one believes in a God of miracles, and miracles are certainly reported in the BoM as well as the Bible, none of this may have any bearing at all.

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BookofMormonLuvr:

Don't know if that was directed to me. But sure there probable were. I just don't know which.

My previous links show which ones. Barley was thought to be brought over by the Europeans, not so.

The Mayan link, maize, kidney beans, avocado and sweet potatoes showed how it is possible to grow in other parts of the world. From the new to old, but apparently it can't go from the old to new.

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Looks like California according to your data. But is this data accurate for 2600 years ago? There is also, iirc, the problem of bacteria at different locales but that may apply more to cattle than to plants. In any case, if one believes in a God of miracles, and miracles are certainly reported in the BoM as well as the Bible, none of this may have any bearing at all.

Also what grows wild is different from what grows with cultivation and a little work. English Ivy is a pest in California in areas with water only.

But suppose someone actually wanted to grow it for some reason- the suggestion is that it would do very well if simply irrigated enough.

With a little work, or the right ecological niche, you can get all kinds of things to grow in all kinds of places- like Palm trees for example growing in England.

Although the palm trees were planted, they do grow naturally in parts of the area and even feature on the district's coat of arms.

So you have English ivy a pest in California, and treasured palm trees in England. There has to be a lesson in there for the OP.

Given the right conditions, anything will grow anywhere.

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