"Sins of Perdition"?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

C. Scott Grow used the term several times- a term I have never heard before.

What exactly are the "sins of Perdition"?

[LDS Guy 1986]

C. Scott Grow used the term several times- a term I have never heard before.

What exactly are the "sins of Perdition"?

I will assume that he refers to the unpardonable sins, the sins that make one a Son of Perdition.

See http://lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition?lang=eng&query=sons+perdition

According to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there are 3 unpardonable sins:

1) Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (See Matthew 12:30-32, Mark 3:28-30, Luke 12:8-10, Hebrews 6:4-8, Hebrews 10:26-29)

2) For a member of the Church to commit murder (See D&C 42:18 http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/42.18?lang=eng#17)

3) To break your Priesthood Covenants with God (See D&C 84:40-41 http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84.40-41?lang=eng#39)

As far as I understand this is what Elder Grow was referring to as "Sins of Perdition".

[emeliza]

I think he said 'sons of perdition'. Not 'sins'.

[LDS Guy 1986]

I think he said 'sons of perdition'. Not 'sins'.

This is Elder Grow's talk:

At approx 5:45 and 7:10 he clearly says "except the sins of perdition".

[LeSellers]

This is Elder Grow's talk:

At approx 5:45 he clearly says "except the sins of perdition".

Yes, he clearly said it, but he misspoke himself. The sentence was "With the exception of the sons of Perdition, the Atonement is available to everyone."

"Everyone" refers to people, and the phrase he pronounced as "sins of Perdition" makes no sense as articulated. It only makes sense if the word was "sons".

Lehi

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Lehi-

He spoke the term 2-3 times using the word "sins".

[LDS Guy 1986]

Yes, he clearly said it, but he misspoke himself. The sentence was "With the exception of the sons of Perdition, the Atonement is available to everyone."

"Everyone" refers to people, and the phrase he pronounced as "sins of Perdition" makes no sense as articulated. It only makes sense if the word was "sons".

Lehi

You take him out of context here so much

His full quote is "Through [Christ's] atoning sacrifice our sins are remitted. With the exception of the sins of Perdition, the Atonement is available to everyone."

Sons do not fit into the context, seeing he is talking about sins being remitted, he clearly said sins of perdition and in context of him talking about sins being remitted, sins of perdition is correct not sons of perdition.

He also mentions sins of perdition not only around 5:45 but again around 7:10.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Yes, he clearly said it, but he misspoke himself. The sentence was "With the exception of the sons of Perdition, the Atonement is available to everyone."

"Everyone" refers to people, and the phrase he pronounced as "sins of Perdition" makes no sense as articulated. It only makes sense if the word was "sons".

Lehi

We will have to wait to next month to see, I doubt that someone who prepared his talk for over a month would make the same mistake several times in his talk. When the Ensign comes out next month we will find out for sure, if it is a mistake the Ensign will correct the mistake.

Added by Edit:

One can either claim that after months of preparation that the Elder misspoke several times in context to his talk, or that he said sins of perdition and by saying this refers to the unpardonable sins that make one a Son of Perdition.

[emeliza]

There is the chance he said that and meant to say that, but that in the written context it will be changed for better clarification.

[Mordecai]

3) To break your Priesthood Covenants with God...

Wow, for a second there, I thought I was going to outer darkness for eternity for not doing my home teaching last month. Perhaps you ought to double check the scriptures on this one?

[LDS Guy 1986]

Wow, for a second there, I thought I was going to outer darkness for eternity for not doing my home teaching last month. Perhaps you ought to double check the scriptures on this one?

Feel free to check out the scripture I provided. I have not only check this out several times and defended this on other threads, but have asked a Seventy about this.

For many who take the verse out of context, they make the false statement that not doing your home teachings is an unforgivable sin, but as I have explained several times, it is only unpardonable if one does not repent and forsake his sin, we all make mistakes but if you do not repent for failing to magnify your calling and then fulfill your Oath and Covenant to God when you willingly took upon yourself the Priesthood then you have committed an unforgivable sin, as it says in Ecclesiastes 5:4-5 "When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay."

Neglecting your priesthood responsibilities and not repenting of this sin is an unforgivable sin, according to the scriptures and the priesthood leadership I have brought this verse up to.

So as you asked I have done far more than double checked the scriptures, and invite you to read D&C 84: 40-41 as well, the Priesthood is not something that one should treat lightly, failure to fulfill your Oath and Covenant has eternal consequences.

[HiJolly]

Neglecting your priesthood responsibilities and not repenting of this sin is an unforgivable sin, according to the scriptures and the priesthood leadership I have brought this verse up to.

As I understand it, not repenting for ANY sin is unforgivable. Any sin.

HiJolly

[rameumptom]

BTW, the Unpardonable sin occurs when someone chooses to be the utmost enemy of Christ. This requires being a member with all the ordinances of the temple, receiving a witness of Christ, and then absolutely rejecting it by shedding of innocent blood.

As far as we know, Cain is the only mortal to ever step over the threshold and merit son of Perdition status. This means that the person revels in his sins, and refuses to partake of the atonement of Christ by repenting. He would prefer Outer Darkness over a kingdom of glory, which only requires the basics of belief in Christ and repentance, or having Christ remit his sins.

[inquiringmind]

the Priesthood is not something that one should treat lightly, failure to fulfill your Oath and Covenant has eternal consequences.

Are you talking about the Aaronic priesthood, or the Melcheszedek priesthood?

And what are the words of the oath that is taken?

Are the words the same for both orders of the priesthood?

[LDS Guy 1986]

BTW, the Unpardonable sin occurs when someone chooses to be the utmost enemy of Christ. This requires being a member with all the ordinances of the temple, receiving a witness of Christ, and then absolutely rejecting it by shedding of innocent blood.

As far as we know, Cain is the only mortal to ever step over the threshold and merit son of Perdition status. This means that the person revels in his sins, and refuses to partake of the atonement of Christ by repenting. He would prefer Outer Darkness over a kingdom of glory, which only requires the basics of belief in Christ and repentance, or having Christ remit his sins.

I would also add Laman and Lemuel to the potential list since they saw angels and knew that God existed and still choose to rebel. There is more than 1 unpardonable sin, according to the scriptures there are 3 unpardonable sins. Blashemy against the Holy Ghost, for a member to commit murder, and to break the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood.

[LeSellers]

Irrespective of how one understands the "unforgivable sin", it is interesting to me that, of all the religions in the world, only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that only its members are candidates for Hell.

We are often accused (falsely) of condemning anyone who is not a member of our Church to hell. But it is our accusers who do that. We have heard on countless occasions that we Saints will go to hell for believing that God loves His children in XXI as much as He did those in the I.

Lehi

[LDS Guy 1986]

Are you talking about the Aaronic priesthood, or the Melcheszedek priesthood?

And what are the words of the oath that is taken?

Are the words the same for both orders of the priesthood?

There is no verbal oath recited, you take upon yourself the Oath of the Priesthood when you are ordained into the Priesthood, all of this is found in D&C 84, this whole section talks about the Priesthood and we were just counciled in the Priesthood Session of General Conference to read this section of the D&C and a few others that pertain to the Priesthood.

Here is the link to D&C 84, http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng

This is off topic so if you want to continue this discussion I would respectfully ask another thread or a PM to be established.

[inquiringmind]

According to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there are 3 unpardonable sins:

1) Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (See Matthew 12:30-32, Mark 3:28-30, Luke 12:8-10, Hebrews 6:4-8, Hebrews 10:26-29)

2) For a member of the Church to commit murder (See D&C 42:18 http://lds.org/scrip....18?lang=eng#17)

3) To break your Priesthood Covenants with God (See D&C 84:40-41 http://lds.org/scrip...-41?lang=eng#39)

Are these three sins, or one sin?

[LDS Guy 1986]

Irrespective of how one understands the "unforgivable sin", it is interesting to me that, of all the religions in the world, only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that only its members are candidates for Hell.

I think it supports the truth of the Church, we are not here to teach man made doctrine that make sin seem like it is no big deal or that they can continue to sin and God will forgive them. We teach the truth to the Gospel in it's fullness we teach all of it without neglecting the parts that are critical of those who try and serve two masters.

This humanistic and secularization of the Gospel is a deception, this idea that once you proclaim you love Christ or get baptized you are ok or better of than anyone else is a terrible deception of Lucifer, IMO.

The Saints are judged the harshest, because we made covenants to God to follow him, others did not. If Christ taught one thing in the New Testament that we need to understand as members of his one true church, it is his rebuke of the Pharisees.

Christ was not a friend to those who taught one thing and did another, when we act like we seek after Christ but are not seeking after him with all of our heart, mind, and strength we are the same as the Pharisees. We have become corrupt hypocrites and Christ condemns hypocrisy whenever he say it.

To enter into these sacred covenants and promise to God that we will obey him, and to then sin and never repent and forsake that sin is to betray Heavenly Father and his Plan of Salvation. There cannot be any forgiveness for this, in this life or the next according to the scriptures.

This is why every time the leadership speaks to us they constantly admonish us to repent and sin no more, we are in danger of spiritual death if we refuse to repent of our sins and as we make more and more covenants the consequences become more and more dire should be refuse to repent of our sins.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Are these three sins, or one sin?

I would be more than happy to discuss this in a new thread or a PM if you desire!

[inquiringmind]

I would be more than happy to discuss this in a new thread or a PM if you desire!

Sorry.

I thought that question was on topic here.

[dirtius maximus]

As LDS Guy indicated there would be 3 unpardonable sins. LDS guy, seems to have studied this topic.

1. Sin against the Holy Ghost is one;

2. Murder (shedding of innocent blood) is a second sin;

3. Receiving Covenants, then altogether turning away therefrom would be a third unpardonable sin.

So they appear to be separate offense but equal in punishment.

I do not believe the Apostle misspoke, the phrase "sins" did highlight in my mind when he said it.

[inquiringmind]

As LDS Guy indicated there would be 3 unpardonable sins. LDS guy, seems to have studied this topic.

1. Sin against the Holy Ghost is one;

2. Murder (shedding of innocent blood) is a second sin;

3. Receiving Covenants, then altogether turning away therefrom would be a third unpardonable sin.

So they appear to be separate offense but equal in punishment.

I do not believe the Apostle misspoke, the phrase "sins" did highlight in my mind when he said it.

Than why did Jesus say "All sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and blasphemies wherwith so ever they may blaspheme. But the blasphemy against The Holy Spirit (LDS guys # 1 of 3) will not be forgiven, either in this world (or age), or the world ((or age) to come."

That sounds like only one.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Than why did Jesus say "All sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and blasphemies wherwith so ever they may blaspheme. But the blasphemy against The Holy Spirit (LDS guys # 1 of 3) will not be forgiven, either in this world (or age), or the world ((or age) to come."

That sounds like only one.

The source from your confusion might be that number 2 and three are not based in the New Testament but modern revelations contained in the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[inquiringmind]

The source from your confusion might be that number 2 and three are not based in the New Testament but modern revelations contained in the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

If the Bible and modern revelations come from the same source, I fail to see how they could contradict one another.

How do the relevant Gospel passages read in the JST?

If Jesus says (in the Gospels) that all but one sin will be forgiven, how can there be multiple unpardonable sins?