The most valiant men & women to ever live

[bookofmormontruth]

Examples of the men and women in the Book of Mormon.

Who were the most valiant people in your opinion?

[LeSellers]

Who were the most valiant people in your opinion?

Easily among the top 100 would be my Jacquie: she raised seven valiant children, taught them herself (fights her liberal mother over the Family-Centered Education thing, and a lot more), puts up with me, and knows what is worth while every day of her life.

It's unfortunate, in my view, that we tend to see groups of people as being most valiant, rather than individuals. Peter was valiant, so were Joseph and Joseph Smith. I think Lucy Mack Smith was valiant, and her daughter-in-law (for the most part, anyway). I believe my mother was valiant, and my now widowed baby sister. I believe President Uchtdorf's parents were valiant. Eve was valiant, and Hannah, Samuel's mother. Abel, naturally, and a host of other in all the scriptures were valiant.

What I hope is that the Lord will say, "Lehi, my son, thou wast valiant." If so, I won't care in the least that I wasn't even number 10,001 on His list.

Lehi

[bookofmormontruth]

Easily among the top 100 would be my Jacquie: she raised seven valiant children, taught them herself (fights her liberal mother over the Family-Centered Education thing, and a lot more), puts up with me, and knows what is worth while every day of her life.

It's unfortunate, in my view, that we tend to see groups of people as being most valiant, rather than individuals. Peter was valiant, so were Joseph and Joseph Smith. I think Lucy Mack Smith was valiant, and her daughter-in-law (for the most part, anyway). I believe my mother was valiant, and my now widowed baby sister. I believe President Uchtdorf's parents were valiant. Eve was valiant, and Hannah, Samuel's mother. Abel, naturally, and a host of other in all the scriptures were valiant.

What I hope is that the Lord will say, "Lehi, thou wast valiant." If so, I won't care in the least that I wasn't even number 10,001 on His list.

Lehi

Well said Lehi! We definitely could add our family members to the list.

Those individuals also make up "the group" and the Book of Mormon people have been the most inspiring and have helped me come closer to God. I just wanted to give them a tribute without discounting the countless others who could easily fit in the same category.

[Lareliw]

I would say the men and women of the Bible have been most inspirational to me, particularly Mary with her unending faith, Ruth with her strength and love and determination, and of course the Apostles and Jesus Christ.

[Sevenbak]

I'm going to vote no. I think the most valiant people to ever live were the people of Enoch. Post Christ Nephites came pretty close I think.

[Stargazer]

General Moroni.

[Nathair/|\]

Easily among the top 100 would be my Jacquie: she raised seven valiant children, taught them herself (fights her liberal mother over the Family-Centered Education thing, and a lot more), puts up with me, and knows what is worth while every day of her life.

It's unfortunate, in my view, that we tend to see groups of people as being most valiant, rather than individuals. Peter was valiant, so were Joseph and Joseph Smith. I think Lucy Mack Smith was valiant, and her daughter-in-law (for the most part, anyway). I believe my mother was valiant, and my now widowed baby sister. I believe President Uchtdorf's parents were valiant. Eve was valiant, and Hannah, Samuel's mother. Abel, naturally, and a host of other in all the scriptures were valiant.

What I hope is that the Lord will say, "Lehi, my son, thou wast valiant." If so, I won't care in the least that I wasn't even number 10,001 on His list.

Lehi

I'd be content if He could just say to me, "Well, you weren't completely worthless."

[TAO]

I'd be content if He could just say to me, "Well, you weren't completely worthless."

Ah man, this is a quote for the ages! =)

[The Nehor]

I'd be content if He could just say to me, "Well, you weren't completely worthless."

"I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another -- I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants."

-King Benjamin

Oh crap.......guess that comment may never happen. I'm going to have to hope for the 'Valiant' one.

[tana]

Define "Valiant". Isn't it a subjective term? Wouldn't one definition be; To be courageous or true to ones beliefs? So, a person could argue that even the slackard is valiant....to his laziness. Even Lucifer is valiant to his convictions.

I remember watching a video in the MTC in 1980. It was a little film produced to show an analogy of the "elite" being saved for the "last days". It showed a part of a stream of water being diverted by a guy with a shovel, stockpiled and saved for a certain purpose. There was no uncertainty in this showing that this stockpile of elites was us/me.

Is it still the LDS belief, and is this the theme of this thread that the valiant have been saved for the last days?

I'm not necessarily looking to win this discussion, just think that it is debatable as to how a person could attain self acquired "valiance".

[bookofmormontruth]

Define "Valiant". Isn't it a subjective term? Wouldn't one definition be; To be courageous or true to ones beliefs? So, a person could argue that even the slackard is valiant....to his laziness. Even Lucifer is valiant to his convictions.

I remember watching a video in the MTC in 1980. It was a little film produced to show an analogy of the "elite" being saved for the "last days". It showed a part of a stream of water being diverted by a guy with a shovel, stockpiled and saved for a certain purpose. There was no uncertainty in this showing that this stockpile of elites was us/me.

Is it still the LDS belief, and is this the theme of this thread that the valiant have been saved for the last days?

I'm not necessarily looking to win this discussion, just think that it is debatable as to how a person could attain self acquired "valiance".

Sure, you can make any definition debatable for your own needs and in the same way you could make lucifer the most loving and honorable to ever live.

The OP was not meant to be complicated and as you can see, everyone has differing opinions. The Book of Mormon people have inspired me the most than any other valiant people.

Is it still the LDS belief, and is this the theme of this thread that the valiant have been saved for the last days?

Here is a great video in regards to this question.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Examples of the men and women in the Book of Mormon.

Who were the most valiant people in your opinion?

Adam and Eve

[LDS Guy 1986]

I would say the men and women of the Bible have been most inspirational to me, particularly Mary with her unending faith, Ruth with her strength and love and determination, and of course the Apostles and Jesus Christ.

All of these people are mentioned in the Book of Mormon as well though, with the exceptions of the Middle East Apostles and maybe Ruth. The Book of Mormon also talks about Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham, and the other valient men and women from Israel pre 600 BC.

Remember that the Book of Mormon is a complement to the Bible that it mentions many of the people and places of the Old World also.

I think though that singling out the Book of Mormon is not fair nor proper, you cannot get a full picture of all the valiant men and women without all the scriptures. I don't like it at all when people try and have the scripture compete with each other, the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the inspired words of the living prophets are all equally vital to our salvation, when people try and make one seem more important than the others it bring contention, which we all know if the workings of the deceiver.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I love the examples of the people in the Book of Mormon because it shows us more of their personalities and how God used imperfect people to accomplish great things.

- Lehi complained

- Nephi was angry

- Alma practiced Priestcraft

- Alma Jr. and his posse were apostates

- Corianton slept with a prostitute

- Amulek was a slacker

- Zeezrom was a lawyer

- King Lamoni killed innocent servants

- Mormon prayed without faith

** I think the Lord is trying to tell us, "If I could use them, I can use you!"**

[bookofmormontruth]

Adam and Eve

Why do you think Adam and Eve?

[bookofmormontruth]

I love the examples of the people in the Book of Mormon because it shows us more of their personalities and how God used imperfect people to accomplish great things.

- Lehi complained

- Nephi was angry

- Alma practiced Priestcraft

- Alma Jr. and his posse were apostates

- Corianton slept with a prostitute

- Amulek was a slacker

- Zeezrom was a lawyer

- King Lamoni killed innocent servants

- Mormon prayed without faith

** I think the Lord is trying to tell us, "If I could use them, I can use you!"**

Agreed and good insights.

Curious about Amulek being a "slacker" and Mormon praying without faith?

[bookofmormontruth]

All of these people are mentioned in the Book of Mormon as well though, with the exceptions of the Middle East Apostles and maybe Ruth. The Book of Mormon also talks about Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham, and the other valient men and women from Israel pre 600 BC.

Remember that the Book of Mormon is a complement to the Bible that it mentions many of the people and places of the Old World also.

I think though that singling out the Book of Mormon is not fair nor proper, you cannot get a full picture of all the valiant men and women without all the scriptures. I don't like it at all when people try and have the scripture compete with each other, the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, and the inspired words of the living prophets are all equally vital to our salvation, when people try and make one seem more important than the others it bring contention, which we all know if the workings of the deceiver.

The Lord's Apostles are also mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Ruth was the only exception.

Are all scripture equal? We all know their importance and they all complement each other. But does one hold more importance? I think that would be a great topic that you should start.

[Nathair/|\]

I love the examples of the people in the Book of Mormon because it shows us more of their personalities and how God used imperfect people to accomplish great things.

- Lehi complained

- Nephi was angry

- Alma practiced Priestcraft

- Alma Jr. and his posse were apostates

- Corianton slept with a prostitute

- Amulek was a slacker

- Zeezrom was a lawyer

- King Lamoni killed innocent servants

- Mormon prayed without faith

** I think the Lord is trying to tell us, "If I could use them, I can use you!"**

She wasn't merely a prostitute, she was probably an heirodule.

"One of the aspects of ancient American religion that archaeology is bringing increasingly to the fore is the dominance of the familiar Great Mother in religion: Where is she in the Book of Mormon? The Book of Mormon brands all non-Nephite cults as idolatry and does not go on to describe them. . . . But there is one broad hint. When Alma's youngest son wanted to misbehave with the harlot Isabel, he had to go into another country to do it (Alma 39:3). Parenthetically, Isabel was the name of the Patroness of Harlots in the religion of the Phoenicians.

Hugh W. Nibley, http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=73&chapid=903

[LDS Guy 1986]

The Lord's Apostles are also mentioned in the Book of Mormon. Ruth was the only exception.

Ok I stand correct on that point, thank you for clarifying my lack of knowledge.

Are all scripture equal? We all know their importance and they all complement each other. But does one hold more importance? I think that would be a great topic that you should start.

This would be an interesting thread for several reasons, most importantly the "14 Fundamentals" from President Benson, I think the important thing though is even if modern scriptures are more relevant to us than ancient scriptures, we wouldn't have the foundation for the modern scriptures without the ancient scriptures so they are all important because you don't have the BoM without the KJV Bible, or the D&C without the BoM/Bible, or the PoGP without the previous 3 texts, or the modern scriptures we get from the inspired words of the living prophets without the standard works.

The important thing is to realize that if we lose any of our scriptures the "arch" of out faith crumbles, losing the base is just as destructive as losing the keystone, IMO.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Why do you think Adam and Eve?

Of all the Lord's spirit children these two were trusted with bring mankind into existence, without any understanding of how to do it, once the veil covered them and left them in a state of complete innocence.

Only the most noble and valiant souls would be trusted with this vitally important mission IMO. This event is of equal importance as the atonement, if there was no fall into morality there is not need for the savior to come and atone so we can return to the presence of God and obtain exaltation.

The Fall and the Atonement are the center of the Plan of Salvation, they are equally the most important part of our eternal progression, without both events there is no Plan of Salvation.

Now Christ is more noble and valiant than A&E because he was sinless but among mankind, there could not of been any nobler a spirit child than Adam and Eve, without them there is no human race to save in the first place.

I think the latter day revelation that Adam was the Archangel Michale in the Premortal existence reinforces my position that Adam and Eve were the most valiant of the Children of God besides Christ.

[bookofmormontruth]

Of all the Lord's spirit children these two were trusted with bring mankind into existence, without any understanding of how to do it, once the veil covered them and left them in a state of complete innocence.

Only the most noble and valiant souls would be trusted with this vitally important mission IMO. This event is of equal importance as the atonement, if there was no fall into morality there is not need for the savior to come and atone so we can return to the presence of God and obtain exaltation.

The Fall and the Atonement are the center of the Plan of Salvation, they are equally the most important part of our eternal progression, without both events there is no Plan of Salvation.

Now Christ is more noble and valiant than A&E because he was sinless but among mankind, there could not of been any nobler a spirit child than Adam and Eve, without them there is no human race to save in the first place.

I think the latter day revelation that Adam was the Archangel Michale in the Premortal existence reinforces my position that Adam and Eve were the most valiant of the Children of God besides Christ.

Excellent points! Thanks for sharing.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Agreed and good insights.

Curious about Amulek being a "slacker" and Mormon praying without faith?

No problem...

Amulek

Alma 10:6

Nevertheless, I did harden my heart, for I was called many times and I would not hear; therefore I knew concerning these things, yet I would not know; therefore I went on rebelling against God, in the wickedness of my heart, even until the fourth day of this seventh month, which is in the tenth year of the reign of the judges.

Mormon

Mormon 3:12

Behold, I had led them, notwithstanding their wickedness I had led them many times to battle, and had loved them, according to the love of God which was in me, with all my heart; and my soul had been poured out in prayer unto my God all the day long for them; nevertheless, it was without faith, because of the hardness of their hearts.

[bookofmormontruth]

No problem...

Amulek

Mormon

Okay, I see the Amulek part, but Mormon was stating he didn't have "faith" in the people from changing from their wicked ways.

I am going to assume that you believe all prayers should be in faith? Because I still struggle with prayers asking for faith.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Okay, I see the Amulek part, but Mormon was stating he didn't have "faith" in the people from changing from their wicked ways.

I am going to assume that you believe all prayers should be in faith? Because I still struggle with prayers asking for faith.

We should try to have faith in all the things we pray for, but we often don't. It shows that even our "spiritual giants" had the same challenges that we do. I like that.

[Lareliw]

Post above talks about Adam being the Archangel Michael in a premortal existence? Is this true and taught?