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"Before there was anything, there was God"


specialslc

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Does the LDS church teach this? Would the missionaries most likely answer "yes", if asked that question?

No. Doctrine is that "intelligence" cannot be created (D&C 93:29). Plus, God himself has a father and theosis is the method by which Gods are made. No Biblical conflict though. However, Jesus did create everything visible and invisible in the physical universe according to Colossians 1:16.

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No. Doctrine is that "intelligence" cannot be created (D&C 93:29). Plus, God himself has a father and theosis is the method by which Gods are made. No Biblical conflict though.

Wow. Your honesty is refreshing. So, if that's true, "Eternal God" is a misnomer, then?

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No. Doctrine is that "intelligence" cannot be created (D&C 93:29). Plus, God himself has a father and theosis is the method by which Gods are made. No Biblical conflict though. However, Jesus did create everything visible and invisible in the physical universe according to Colossians 1:16.

And how is there no biblical conflict with saying that God himself has a Father, (in light of Isaiah 46 9-10, just as a starting point)?

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Define "anything".

I think that "anything" refers to everything in our realm of existence. If you take LDS scriptures alone, you'll get the idea that God is Eternal and has always been God. The idea that there was a God before God comes from a couple of sermons taught by Joseph Smith shortly before his death: The King Follet Discourse and the Sermon in the Grove.

So if you take those last couple of sermons into account, "anything" must refer to everything that exists which pertains to us.

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"Before there was anything there was God" - yes of course.

This belief by some in the church that God was once a mortal man and has a father is unsciptural and therefore suspect at best - unless we are talking about Jesus of course.

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Does the LDS church teach this? Would the missionaries most likely answer "yes", if asked that question?

Oh boy, another Evangelical with his brand new copy of The Green Book of Witnessing to Mormons.

We've heard it before, we've answered it before, and we're bored with it.

The first verse of the Bible does not say what you believe it says, it does not support your position (stated in later messages, below) that God dragged all of existence out of nothingness. The second verse destroys this notion, but you ignore that one.

Lehi

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Oh boy, another Evangelical with his brand new copy of The Green Book of Witnessing to Mormons.

We've heard it before, we've answered it before, and we're bored with it.

The first verse of the Bible does not say what you believe it says, it does not support your position (stated in later messages, below) that God dragged all of existence out of nothingness. The second verse destroys this notion, but you ignore that one.

Lehi

Oh boy. Guess what? I'm not an evangelical.

Thanks for the reply though.

I had a perfectly good reason for asking the question. Since you seem to know everything, why don't you guess what that is.

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I don't believe that God exsists outside time and space. IOW I don't think God exsisted before everything.

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Does the LDS church teach this? Would the missionaries most likely answer "yes", if asked that question?

Hi,

Consider things that President Young taught:

October 8, 1854

...There has never been a time when the creations of worlds commenced, they are from eternity to eternity in their creations and redemption. After they are organized, they experience the good and evil; the light, and the dark, the bitter and the sweet, as you and I do. There never was a time when there were not worlds in existence as this world is, and they pass through similar changes in abiding their creation preparatory to exaltation. Worlds have always been in progress, and eternally will be.

... Every world that has been created, has been created upon the same principle. They may vary in their varieties, yet the eternity is one; it is one eternal round.

God is not one finite being in the Mormon faith. Jesus is God is the Mormon faith, but so is his Father. And so is the Holy Ghost. They are three different finite beings, not so different than ourselves, and they are all God. But God is greater than these three finite beings. God is infinite and eternal-- a thing finite beings can never be.

Richard

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No. Doctrine is that "intelligence" cannot be created (D&C 93:29). Plus, God himself has a father and theosis is the method by which Gods are made. No Biblical conflict though.
Wow. Your honesty is refreshing.

I don't think many LDS would be dishonest with you.

So, if that's true, "Eternal God" is a misnomer, then?

Not at all. Especially when comparing larger infinities with smaller ones, it is possible to conceive of a linear situation in which God has always been God and yet there was a time when He was not God. Ask yourself "How many real numbers are there between any two points on a numberline?" The answer is infinity.

So define a point where God became God and before which He was not God. Farther down is the point that represents now. If each real number between those two points represents one year (or one second, or any measure of time you care to designate), how many years has God been God? Infinity.

And how is there no biblical conflict with saying that God himself has a Father, (in light of Isaiah 46 9-10, just as a starting point)?

Because the Bible has God (Jesus/Jehovah) Himself proclaiming He has a Father. Plus the Bible declares elsewhere that there is a plurality of Gods and that men are destined to become Gods vis Theosis. So the Isaiah 40-46 implied context must be that there are no Gods created for the Hebrews to worship, especially among the idol gods.

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D&C 19 goes into what eternal and endless mean; nah it's not a misnomer, it is just different than what people expect, I think.

That is correct. The concept of "Eternal" (or everlasting) may or may not have a linear time component. If Eternal means "living or existing forever" then the wicked have eternal life according to John 5:28-29. Yet we know the wicked do not receive eternal life as per 1 John 3:15 et. al. So eternal means something more than merely living forever.

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Wow. Your honesty is refreshing. So, if that's true, "Eternal God" is a misnomer, then?

The problem here is that language cannot express it.

God existed "before" eternity (as we know it) and before time (as we know it)and so did matter.

So does that make Him (and it- matter) eternal or not?

If he organized what we call "eternity" is he eternal?

He has always existed and started time as we know it. Does that help? You didn't think it was that complicated a question did you? :P

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Wow. Your honesty is refreshing. So, if that's true, "Eternal God" is a misnomer, then?

No, because he like all things is made of intelligence which is eternal, just like our spirits are made of intelligence and we are eternal also.

Also as our Heavenly Father he is and will always be our Eternal God and Father.

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bump.

Special seems to have disappeared.

The other problem with the statement "Before there was anything there was God" is that it is contradictory, since God is "something".

So it is saying "Before there was anything, there was Something", which really is the whole source of confusion for the multiple answers. The statement itself is confused.

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