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Forever?


inquiringmind

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It means endless, eternal, infinitely enduring, etc.

But later, Joseph Smith altered the meaning of "endless and eternal" to be names for God: so that "endless punishment" and "eternal punishment" become "God's punishment". You could say that the Nephites did not have a clear understanding of the nature of the afterlife, and believed in some fearsome dogmatic doctrines that are not true: or at least not immutable!...

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It means endless, eternal, infinitely enduring, etc.

But later, Joseph Smith altered the meaning of "endless and eternal" to be names for God: so that "endless punishment" and "eternal punishment" become "God's punishment". You could say that the Nephites did not have a clear understanding of the nature of the afterlife, and believed in some fearsome dogmatic doctrines that are not true: or at least not immutable!...

There are those who say that the Hebrew "olam," and the Greek "aion," "aionian," "aionios" can sometimes mean age (or of an age), and there are O.T. passages that would seem to say that the old Law would be endlessly observed if such words always carry the conotation of endless duration.

Did Joseph Smith, or any general authorities of the LDS Church, ever comment on the meaning of these words (beyond saying that they're sometimes names of God)?

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What is the meaning of "for ever" as used in the BOM?

Does it always mean endless, or does it sometimes mean "for an age"?

Forever means eternally, I believe. However, in reference to the verse that you refer to (1 Nephi 10:21 right? I ran across it this morning... strange coincidence :P), it is talking about those whom do not repent by the time the judgment comes - which is after spiritual prison/paradise. Only those who do not after that time (it is part of the time of probation) will be cast off forever - that is they will go to outer darkness. Even those in the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms will repent eventually, but not those that go to outer darkness =/.

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I don't know of anyone addressing ancient Hebrew words other than Joseph Smith, and he didn't talk about the meaning of those Greek or Hebrew words to my knowledge.

Mixing later doctrine to explain what the BofM means is only an exercise some TBMs are "required" to do. The evidence I accept points to the BofM being Joseph Smith's early doctrine; and later he changed is views and included a chance to repent after death. The BofM (the Nephite cosmology) says that if you are even thinking sinfully, and are "cut off (killed) in the very act", you are lost forever in that hell which is as a lake of fire and brimstone, etc. There is not the slightest trace of degrees of glory or any work for the dead or any "final judgment" after repentance in "spirit prison", anywhere in the BofM.

In the Journal of Discourses somewhere is the teaching of Brigham Young proposing that all spirits that are damned eventually return to their "essence" (go back to the beginning) and start over. And this by implication would include the devil and his angels in outer darkness....

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was wondering if any Mormon general authorities ever commented on the ambiguity of the Hebrew and Greek words, as discussed here

If the original text of the BOM was related to Hebrew, is it possible that the words translated "forever," and "ever" denote something less than endless duration (or would Joseph's inspired translation of the text have removed the conotation of endless duration, if that weren't what God intended.in the passages where it's found)?

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I was wondering if any Mormon general authorities ever commented on the ambiguity of the Hebrew and Greek words, as discussed here

If the original text of the BOM was related to Hebrew, is it possible that the words translated "forever," and "ever" denote something less than endless duration (or would Joseph's inspired translation of the text have removed the conotation of endless duration, if that weren't what God intended.in the passages where it's found)?

I think it's one of the things God spoke of in parables and mysteries, that I do. I don't think he intended to reveal it to clearly to the world, if it is such.

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It means endless, eternal, infinitely enduring, etc.

But later, Joseph Smith altered the meaning of "endless and eternal" to be names for God: so that "endless punishment" and "eternal punishment" become "God's punishment". You could say that the Nephites did not have a clear understanding of the nature of the afterlife, and believed in some fearsome dogmatic doctrines that are not true: or at least not immutable!...

Your logic is obviously flawed, for if we follow it, we find that it sets up the Bible for internal conflict. For example, if we assume "eternal" means strictly what you think it does, then John 5:28-29 means even the wicked have eternal life, but in 1 John 3:15, we find out that this is not the case. However, now we see that the revelation to JS on the matter corrects the traditional view in such a manner as to resolve this conflict and not create any others.

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I was wondering if any Mormon general authorities ever commented on the ambiguity of the Hebrew and Greek words, as discussed here

General authorities rarely delve into such esoterica. If any has, I am unaware of it.

If the original text of the BOM was related to Hebrew, is it possible that the words translated "forever," and "ever" denote something less than endless duration

It was, and they probably do.

(or would Joseph's inspired translation of the text have removed the conotation of endless duration, if that weren't what God intended.in the passages where it's found)?

Joseph, for good or not, was a frontier USmerican of the early XIX. His language was all he had to work with as a translator. If he understood "eternal" or "forever" as he was translating, then Oliver wrote "eternal" or "forever".

Lehi

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General authorities rarely delve into such esoterica. If any has, I am unaware of it.

It was, and they probably do.

Joseph, for good or not, was a frontier USmerican of the early XIX. His language was all he had to work with as a translator. if he understood "eternal" or "forever" as he was translating, then Oliver wrote "eternal" or "forever".

Lehi

Thank you.

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