ELF1024 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 How do you know they will all refuse to see what they are doing is wrong before you try?The Great and Spacious building defends them, tells them they are wronged by society. That they are wronged by Religion. That they are treated unequally. Everything that the world does is to encourage them in their reporbate behavior. Valentinus's remarks about the bible and President Kimball are fairly representative of the opinons I have run into. Most of these poor souls have purchased the "born that way" club card, and believe that they are nothing more than victims.Even on this board we have the signature line that says "As Blacks were, Homosexuals are today; as Blacks are today; Homosexuals can become "As gays are, blacks once were. As blacks are, gays may become." --The Dude ". (Darin's Signature)Satan does not easily let go of those he has fooled.I see no reason to try and help them. Leave them in their cesspool of sin and vice. Link to comment
Damien the Leper Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The Great and Spacious building defends them, tells them they are wronged by society. That they are wronged by Religion. That they are treated unequally. Everything that the world does is to encourage them in their reporbate behavior. Valentinus's remarks about the bible and President Kimball are fairly representative of the opinons I have run into. Most of these poor souls have purchased the "born that way" club card, and believe that they are nothing more than victims.Even on this board we have the signature line that says "As Blacks were, Homosexuals are today; as Blacks are today; Homosexuals can become "As gays are, blacks once were. As blacks are, gays may become." --The Dude ". (Darin's Signature)Satan does not easily let go of those he has fooled.I see no reason to try and help them. Leave them in their cesspool of sin and vice.The 'straight' and narrow path is paved with misguided ideas and irrational perception. You cannot make such a bold statement "that we have purchased the "born that way" club card" with out providing a more substantial argument. The Boyd Packers, the Thomas Monsons, the Dallin Oaks, the Spencer Kimballs, etc. hold little integrity concerning the spiritual matters of homosexuals. This is where I am going to break down the arrogance. While those men may be prophetic, they do not have the final say concerning anything. The church authoritarianism is plagued deeply by the pandemics of our own humanity and our inability to look beyond surface and self. Hasty generalizations and biased studies against homosexual behavior are hardly admissable in any argument worthy of discussion. The LDS church has an archaic perspective on many things. It wishes it were the same church established by Jesus but is a far cry from it. No claim to having prophets and apostles is a single qualifier. Just as well, the LDS church today is similarly like the church Joseph Smith established but still not the same. Tradition isn't necessarily correct as Jesus proved in His ministry.I see no reason to help hetersexuals who choose to maintain a norm that really never served a purpose. The Fred Phelps, the James Dobsons, the Pat Robertsons and many who are like minded concerning the subject are unworthy of dignifying. Link to comment
ELF1024 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The 'straight' and narrow path is paved with misguided ideas and irrational perception. You cannot make such a bold statement "that we have purchased the "born that way" club card" with out providing a more substantial argument. The Boyd Packers, the Thomas Monsons, the Dallin Oaks, the Spencer Kimballs, etc. hold little integrity concerning the spiritual matters of homosexuals. This is where I am going to break down the arrogance. While those men may be prophetic, they do not have the final say concerning anything. The church authoritarianism is plagued deeply by the pandemics of our own humanity and our inability to look beyond surface and self. Hasty generalizations and biased studies against homosexual behavior are hardly admissable in any argument worthy of discussion. The LDS church has an archaic perspective on many things. It wishes it were the same church established by Jesus but is a far cry from it. No claim to having prophets and apostles is a single qualifier. Just as well, the LDS church today is similarly like the church Joseph Smith established but still not the same. Tradition isn't necessarily correct as Jesus proved in His ministry.I see no reason to help hetersexuals who choose to maintain a norm that really never served a purpose. The Fred Phelps, the James Dobsons, the Pat Robertsons and many who are like minded concerning the subject are unworthy of dignifying.Thank you yet again for proving my point that there is no sense what-so-ever in having a dialogue with you. Link to comment
sjdawg Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Thank you yet again for proving my point that there is no sense what-so-ever in having a dialogue with you.Yes, because you have proven to be so reasonable and open to other points of view as well. Link to comment
ELF1024 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Yes, because you have proven to be so reasonable and open to other points of view as well.I'm open to other points of view in many instances, however, homosexuality is not one of them. Link to comment
Damien the Leper Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Thank you yet again for proving my point that there is no sense what-so-ever in having a dialogue with you.You have taken a position of "I'm right because my religion and Prophets say so, and you're wrong because you don't have faith or the Spirit to confirm truth". This is elitist bullcrap at its best. What you have proven to me is that you are unwilling to love as Christ did. While I may disagree with your perspective, I respect it so long as its not regurgitated vomit from the pulpit or the Ensign. I have wonderful LDS friends who disagree with me but we have open-minded dialogue in which we build greater respect. You have not provided an avenue in which I can stand equally with you. Link to comment
Damien the Leper Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm open to other points of view in many instances, however, homosexuality is not one of them.Then don't discuss homosexuality since as Kimball ignorantly states that it is uncomfortable and repugnant for discussion. Not an exact quote but you get the idea. Link to comment
ELF1024 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 You have not provided an avenue in which I can stand equally with you.You are correct, we stand very much apart.I also stand very much apart from Fred Phelps, the James Dobsons, and the Pat Robertsons of the world.While I do not in anyway condone your behavior, I am more than happy to allow those who behave in that fashion unmolested to their free agency. Link to comment
Jason Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I see no reason to try and help them. Leave them in their cesspool of sin and vice.You are commanded to love your neighbor as yourself, and told that every soul has value. These are children of God - your brothers and sisters. Are you really arguing that they are all irredemable? Link to comment
Jason Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Then don't discuss homosexuality since as Kimball ignorantly states that it is uncomfortable and repugnant for discussion. Not an exact quote but you get the idea.It IS an uncomfortable and repungnant subject, but like Jacob we often find ourselves having to talk about what we wouldn't choose to discuss. Link to comment
ELF1024 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 You are commanded to love your neighbor as yourself, and told that every soul has value. These are children of God - your brothers and sisters. Are you really arguing that they are all irredemable?Not irredeemable.Just unwilling to listen and to accept the truth. And why should they? The world tells them what they want to hear!At some point they may come to understand that they have been fooled, and lead away into forbidden paths. But until that point, they are unreachable. Redemption is something that each person must be willing to accept; we can't force it upon them. Link to comment
zelder Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I respect your view ELF but muslims and gays are not really comparable. Teaching muslims is potentially life threatening while teaching gays is just frustrating. However, at the rate we are going, I imagine that teaching gays could eventually become life threatening. They did get a little scary during and after Prop8 Link to comment
ELF1024 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I respect your view ELF but muslims and gays are not really comparable. Teaching muslims is potentially life threatening while teaching gays is just frustrating. However, at the rate we are going, I imagine that teaching gays could eventually become life threatening. They did get a little scary during and after Prop8It may have been a bad example.However, there are plenty of people who are looking for the gospel, and aren't going to suffer through some sort of life changing trauma to do it.I still say we just leave the homosexuals alone and hope they can be redeemed after they are dead. Link to comment
sjdawg Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 However, at the rate we are going, I imagine that teaching gays could eventually become life threatening. They did get a little scary during and after Prop8Not Mountain Meadows scary, but just a little scary. Link to comment
Jason Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I still say we just leave the homosexuals alone and hope they can be redeemed after they are dead.If we stopped doing missionary work because it was hard and no one seemed to be listening I would have had a very short mission. Link to comment
ELF1024 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If we stopped doing missionary work because it was hard and no one seemed to be listening I would have had a very short mission.That is a valid point of view. I guess I'm just very short of compassion. Link to comment
Sky Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I see no reason to try and help them. Leave them in their cesspool of sin and vice.That Link to comment
Nemesis Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Automatic generated messageThis topic has been closed by a moderator.Reason: Seems some people cannot handle a discussion. Next time we are suspending people.Thank you,Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board Staff Link to comment
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