Karen Carlson

[ELF1024]

URL ABC4

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I am sure the President receives messages from "the Lord" sent by religious fanatics everyday day, it will not create some national media buzz.

Also, Mr. Jeff's in no way threatened the President, he merely stated what he believes the Lord is telling him to tell the President- that He, the Lord, will bring judgment on the nation if they don't refrain from persecuting the FLDS people.

[thesometimesaint]

ELF1024:

To be technically accurate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are the Strangeites. We're the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[krose]

Mormons are not threatening the president?

These guys might be singing a different tune if they knew and listened to some of the Mormons I know.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Mormons are not threatening the president?

These guys might be singing a different tune if they knew and listened to some of the Mormons I know.

That is quite an accusation to throw around. Are you implying that some of the Mormons you know are planning on doing harm to the POTUS? If you are and do not report such activities, you are in some deep doo-doo.

[erichard]

Warren Jeffs appears to be claiming to be a prophet again. Here are two recent "Word of the Lord" revelations he has written.

But I thought Warren confessed in jail to being a false prophet? What happened to that?

I do not believe Warren Jeffs is a true prophet.

However, you have to admit that when a person, claiming to be a prophet of Israel, writes down "the Word of the Lord" --and gives it to the people to examine and consider-- he is doing something very fair.

And in fact that is the "pattern" of true prophets in ancient Israel and in early Mormonism. The LDS church church presidents have not produced any such oracles for over 120 years, by the way.

Warren's Feb 5, 2011 "revelation" seems to predict an earthquake "soon" to take place in Illinois, unto the loss of many lives. If that happens, what can we say? If that doesn't happen, what can Warren's followers say?

Richard

[thesometimesaint]

erichard:

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2?lang=eng

[erichard]

erichard:

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2?lang=eng

Hi,

It is OD that you would give a link to something that clearly is NOT written as a "Word of the Lord" revelation.

I will agree that the gift that Joseph had, and that Moses, Isaiah and other prophets had, to be the mouthpiece for the Lord and write in His name-- I will agree that this is not the only gift that prophets can have. There are many spiritual gifts.

But clearly you can see that conference talks and writings like OD-1 and OD-2 and even records of dreams are NOT the same gift. Right?

Richard

[David T]

It is OD that you would give a link to something that clearly is NOT written as a "Word of the Lord" revelation

erichard:

So-called "Word of the Lord" revelations as you call them are not some distinct spiritual gift, but rather rhetorical devices to further express and reinforce the principle of authority. It's quite apparent to me that we've moved past the need or usefulness of framing written expressions of inspiration and revelation in such a way.

I'd suggest some exploring of the Joseph Smith Papers: Revelations & Translations, Manuscript Revelation Books.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

erichard:

So-called "Word of the Lord" revelations as you call them are some distinct spiritual gift, but rather rhetorical devices to further express and reinforce the principle of authority. It's quite apparent to me that we've moved past the need or usefulness of framing written expressions of inspiration and revelation in such a way.

I'd suggest some exploring of the Joseph Smith Papers: Revelations & Translations, Manuscript Revelation Books.

Wow.

[thesometimesaint]

erichard:

To the LDS Scripture is what is determined by the Church. Dreams, and Conference Talks don't ordinarily rise to the level of Scripture. Only those things that are unanimously agreed to by the First Presidency, AND the Quorum of the Twelve, AND presented to the Church for their sustaining, get to be called Scripture. OD2 clearly meets that definition.

See https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B7P1x3NXLrqkMjE5NzEwZDAtNjZkOS00YmM0LTk0NjYtZDcyYTQ2ZDQ2ZTIz&hl=en&authkey=CLm4-fMN

[David T]

erichard:

To the LDS Scripture is what is determined by the Church. Dreams, and Conference Talks don't ordinarily rise to the level of Scripture. Only those things that are unanimously agreed to by the First Presidency, AND the Quorum of the Twelve, AND presented to the Church for their sustaining, get to be called Scripture. OD2 clearly meets that definition.

See https://docs.google....uthkey=CLm4-fMN

erichard is a proponent of the Second Book of Commandments, written by a self-professed prophet who promotes and expands unsubstantialed Mormon folklore/speculation, attributes things to Joseph that, while having traditionally been associated with him, have been shown to have been mistaken, and he also regularly chastizes the current LDS leadership for not agreeing with his own interpretation of Mormon doctrinal history in the framework of 'Thus Saith the Lord'. He tries to build a new doctrinal framework based on Brigham Young's Adam-God teachings, and professes an even darker and more strongly racist explanation for the Black Race/Seed of Cain than anything previously presented in Mormon literature. Within this guy's rhetoric, if you're not writing a 'Thus Saith the Lord' text, you don't have the special prophetic gift that Joseph had, and therefore, the modern Church has lost a gift, and needs a real prophet to call them to repentance - him, of course.

erichard is constantly proselytizing for this guy and his 2BC here.

[erichard]

...erichard is constantly proselytizing for this guy and his 2BC here.

Hi Nack,

I thought it was against the rules of this board to proselyte. Hopefully they will stop me if I do that.

It is not proselyting to have and express convictions about what one believes is the truth. Often different points of view on a matter helps everyone understand the matter better. I find some of the resident experts on this board valuable for learning a few things.

I certainly have never suggested that anyone leave the LDS church. Nor have I ever suggested that the LDS church was not set up by the Lord.

Yet, I do not believe it is a "done deal" that the Lord will never allow the leadership of His Gentile church to make serious errors. In other words, I believe in trusting above all the scriptures and the spirit, and I seek to not trust in the arm of flesh.

President Wilford Woodruff, wrote a few very interesting "Word of the Lord" revelations. They can be found here. In one of them the Lord speaks about judgments coming upon this nation. It is very likely that Warren Jeffs has read this revelation.

6 The hour is at the door when My wrath and

indignation shall be poured out upon the wicked

of this nation. Their murders, blasphemies,

lyings, whoredoms and abominations have come

up before My face, and before the heavens, and

the wrath of Mine indignation is full.

7 I have decreed plagues to go forth, and lay

waste Mine enemies, and not many years hence

they shall not be left to pollute Mine heritage.

8 The devil is ruling over his kingdom, and My

Spirit has no place in the hearts of the rulers of

this nation, and the devil stirs them up to defy My

power, and to make war upon My saints.

...

24 The nation is ripened in iniquity, and the cup

of the wrath of Mine indignation is full, and I will

not stay My hand in judgment upon this nation

or the nations of the earth.

25 I have decreed wars and judgments upon the

wicked, and My wrath and indignation are about

to be poured out upon them, and the wicked and

rebellious shall know that I am God.

26 As I the LORD have spoken, so will I the

LORD fulfill. I will spare none who remain in

babylon, but I will burn them up, saith the Lord

of Hosts.

...

53 The blood of My servants Joseph and Hyrum

and of Mine apostles and elders which has been

shed for the word of God, and the testimony of

Jesus Christ, cries from the ground for vengeance

upon the nation which has shed their blood.

54 But their blood shall speedily be avenged, and

shall cease to cry unto Me, for the hour of God's

judgment is fully come, and shall be poured out

without measure upon the wicked.

Revelation Received Monday, January 26, 1880

At Sunset, Arizona Territory

By Apostle Wilford Woodruff

Source: Wilford Woodruff Journal

Recorded Twice:

Dec. 28, 1880 and April 17, 1897

[krose]

That is quite an accusation to throw around. Are you implying that some of the Mormons you know are planning on doing harm to the POTUS? If you are and do not report such activities, you are in some deep doo-doo.

Don't be ridiculous. A few frustrated right-wingers blowing off steam are not an actual threat to the president, no matter how much they whine and complain. The tea-folk who actually carried guns to rallies are much more of a threat than those who sit in their homes and mutter about what they would like to do.

Voicing frustrations does not constitute a "plan." I'm not in any kind of "doo," and neither are my disappointed right-wing acquaintances who will never have access to the president.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Don't be ridiculous. A few frustrated right-wingers blowing off steam are not an actual threat to the president, no matter how much they whine and complain. The tea-folk who actually carried guns to rallies are much more of a threat than those who sit in their homes and mutter about what they would like to do.

Voicing frustrations does not constitute a "plan." I'm not in any kind of "doo," and neither are my disappointed right-wing acquaintances who will never have access to the president.

Your post clearly implied that some of your Mormon acquaintances are a threat to the President. Perhaps, you should be more careful in your wording next time.

[USU78]

Your post clearly implied that some of your Mormon acquaintances are a threat to the President. Perhaps, you should be more careful in your wording next time.

This alleged qualification somehow makes the unfounded and utterly stupid statement okay?

Not by a country hectare.

[BCSpace]

Don't be ridiculous. A few frustrated right-wingers blowing off steam are not an actual threat to the president, no matter how much they whine and complain. The tea-folk who actually carried guns to rallies are much more of a threat than those who sit in their homes and mutter about what they would like to do.

Actually, it's the doctrine of the LDS Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ that is the greatest threat to the president and his administration. It is a fundamental basis behind opposition to him in any election and it's why he and the people he allies himself with are working overtime to dismantle critical values (only one of many examples) long known to be eternal prinicples to diffuse the strength, numbers, and the will of people who accept these principles and the Gospel. The Book of Mormon itself identifies the ultimate source of this threat in Ether 2:8-12. Since LDS serve the God of the land, we are the greatest threat to any who oppose Him because we carry the torch of the Gospel and it's doctrine.