Jump to content

Why was jesus transfigured before the atonement?


Christian Mormon

Recommended Posts

Some in the Church have thought that the Mount of Transfiguation was also where an endowment happened, most likely for Christ, since he had to receive all ordinances just as he did baptism. This would had to have happened before he died. Mounts/Mountains are considered holy and, in times when there is no temple on the earth, they can be used for temple ceremonies, such as an endowment.

Link to comment

why was christ transfigured in preparation for the atonement?

my coworker is confused because he has been taught that jesus and God the father is one person.

and i cant find a good LDS answer.

thx ahead of time

oh my! that is a very common beleif of probably 6 billion people today.... we are the "only" religon that knows otherwise.. but their are many,many biblical scripturres that testify to our knowledge.. other christians all seem to beleive the nicene creed which was a desicion by a group of scholars about 300 a.d.. its in the bible {the father being separte from the son}.. i would suggest you go to l.d.s .org and see for yourself the many evidences. of which you will have lots of amunition to work with.. good luck.:P

Link to comment

why was christ transfigured in preparation for the atonement?

my coworker is confused because he has been taught that jesus and God the father is one person.

and i cant find a good LDS answer.

thx ahead of time

I can't help you much with an LDS explanation of the many times Jesus stated that he and his Father are one. What I heard in Sunday School is that they are "one in purpose and intent" or something like that, and that explanation is satisfactory to some but not to others (myself included).

In my opinion, the man Jesus had to go through certain steps as part of his own progression. One of those steps was becoming an immortal, which is what happened on the Mount of Transfiguration. Another step was what is commonly called the "atonement", though again my own views there are somewhat unorthodox. Throughout most of his ministry, Jesus was in very very close companionship with "the Father", to the point where seeing Jesus was seeing "the Father". I believe "the Father" left him alone for his most difficult, culminating challenge, because he had to do that one on his own.

Just my opinion of course.

stYro

Link to comment

Why was Christ transfigured in preparation of the atonement?

Perhaps the answer is in Moses 1:11...

But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.

Perhaps even Jesus had to be transfigured to a temporarily celestial-like state in order to actually see the Father. But I don't know for sure if he had to.

Link to comment

I have heard before that it may have been an endowment ceremony, as mountains were used as temples.

However, Moses was transfigured when he went up into the mountain into God's presence and was given his mission to bring Israel out of bondage. Moses and Elijah were both present on the Mount of Transfiguration with the Lord. It may be that they were committing certain keys of authority to the Lord to carry out His mission, leading up to the atonement.

Link to comment

why was christ transfigured in preparation for the atonement?

my coworker is confused because he has been taught that jesus and God the father is one person.

and i cant find a good LDS answer.

thx ahead of time

My own opinion... To get the power or instruction to rise from the grave from his Father?

Link to comment

why was christ transfigured in preparation for the atonement?

my coworker is confused because he has been taught that jesus and God the father is one person.

and i cant find a good LDS answer.

thx ahead of time

The Mount of Transfiguration is where Christ makes the transition from mortality to immortality. He lived as a mortal man till this point, he was baptized, tempted, started his ministry then took the men he choose to lead his church (Peter, James, and John) up to witness his transfiguration from mortality to immortality. As some have mentioned this is where Christ would of received his endowment and the keys of the kingdom. This is the point where Christ pierces the veil and begins remembering his premortal existence as Jehovah the second member of the Godhead.

This of course is great evidence against the trinity, it shows that Christ needed a mortal existence just like we do, Christ had to prove that he was worthy of being our savior to Heavenly Father without a perfect knowledge of his pre-mortal life. If Christ was Heavenly Father he wouldn't of needed to be transfigured. Christ is God in the sense he is a member of the Godhead, Christ is not the Father though. This and many other verses throughout the Holy Bible provide compelling evidence for this.

www.LDS.org, www.fairlds.org, and www.maxwellinstitute.byu.org are excellent sources to find more information!

Link to comment

why was christ transfigured in preparation for the atonement?

my coworker is confused because he has been taught that jesus and God the father is one person.

and i cant find a good LDS answer.

thx ahead of time

I don't understand how the transfiguration has anything to do with the mainstream view of the Trinity.

Link to comment

why was christ transfigured in preparation for the atonement?

my coworker is confused because he has been taught that jesus and God the father is one person.

and i cant find a good LDS answer.

thx ahead of time

This might help point you in an enlightening direction. From Margaret Barker, "The Secret Tradition":

http://www.margaretbarker.com/Papers/SecretTradition.pdf

After the desert experience, according to Luke, Jesus claimed to be the fulfilment of the prophecy in

Isaiah 61. The Spirit was upon him, he had been anointed and was to inaugurate the great year of

Jubilee (Luke 4.16-21). In the Melchizedek Text (11Q Melch) the same passage in Isaiah is applied to

the Jubilee brought by the heavenly high priest Melchizedek, who is the LORD himself, the great year

of Jubilee which culminates in the final Day of Atonement. The hostile reaction to this revelation will

have led to the formation of an inner group to whom the secret could be communicated. Thus the

disciples were chosen, and the Transfiguration made the inner group aware of Jesus

Link to comment

my coworker is confused because he has been taught that jesus and God the father is one person.

Most Christian denominations do not believe that Jesus and God the father are one person, but rather one being (there being significant differences if I get it right between finite and infinite beings that allows this to be materially and logically possible). There is a difference between being one person (finite sort of) and being one being (infinite). Modalism is where God appears at different times as the Father or the Son or the Spirit and this is considered a heresy by most orthodox denominations though it is often the understanding of their individual members.

The Nicene Creed teaches this:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
and
Most Christians, and probably the wide ecumenical consensus, first and foremost uphold the belief that God is One. "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Deuteronomy 6:4). But how to reconcile the Trinity with a monotheistic faith? The wider ecumenical consensus has viewed God's unity "not as a unity of separable parts, but of distinguishable persons."[100] The Trinity is formed by three distinct persons, yet of one and the same essence. Three persons, one God. To distinguish in what way God is One, and in what way God is Three, helps remove the logical contradiction. This has been upheld as the correct interpretation of the Apostolic teachings since the writings of Athanasius and the Council of Nicaea in AD 325.
http://en.wikipedia....#cite_note-EB-1
Link to comment

I'm wondering where the sense comes from that Christ's transfiguration made him immortal. If I'm not mistaken, Christ died AFTER He was transfigured. His spirit left his body. The body was laid in a tomb. The spirit went to the spirit world. I think that is pretty much the opposite of being imortal. :P

I don't think we really know or understand what it means to be transfigured.

Link to comment

I'm wondering where the sense comes from that Christ's transfiguration made him immortal. If I'm not mistaken, Christ died AFTER He was transfigured. His spirit left his body. The body was laid in a tomb. The spirit went to the spirit world. I think that is pretty much the opposite of being imortal. :P

I don't think we really know or understand what it means to be transfigured.

I am under the impression that we are immortal without Christ, like everyone who died before him is a spirit in the spirit world someplace or perhaps in some way we don't know that happened because of Christ even before he came to earth to perform the atonement?

Link to comment

I'm wondering where the sense comes from that Christ's transfiguration made him immortal. If I'm not mistaken, Christ died AFTER He was transfigured. His spirit left his body. The body was laid in a tomb. The spirit went to the spirit world. I think that is pretty much the opposite of being imortal. :P

I don't think we really know or understand what it means to be transfigured.

Perhaps "transfigured" is equivalent to "quickened".
Link to comment

I'm wondering where the sense comes from that Christ's transfiguration made him immortal. If I'm not mistaken, Christ died AFTER He was transfigured. His spirit left his body. The body was laid in a tomb. The spirit went to the spirit world. I think that is pretty much the opposite of being imortal. :P

I don't think we really know or understand what it means to be transfigured.

Christ was immortal, he did not have to die on the Cross, he could of if he so choose sat up there till the guards got board and let him down. "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." (John 10:18)

His transfiguration is where he gained the power to never die, he needed this to happen so he could willingly offer up his own life for our sins. Had Christ simply died from natural causes on the Cross there could of been no atonement since his life was taken from him. Only be giving up his immoral life could be be saved, why this is and how it works no one really understands. All we do know is that Christ did NOT have to die on the Cross, he CHOOSE to die to save us from our sins.

Link to comment
Christ was immortal . . .

Reminds me of the following:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6

So, I guess is just depends on how you define mortal and immortal.

His transfiguration is where he gained the power to never die . . .

CFR

Do you have any authority for this assertion?

Link to comment

Reminds me of the following:

So, I guess is just depends on how you define mortal and immortal.

CFR

Do you have any authority for this assertion?

Yes, the authority of God as given through his one true Church. Basic scripture study and the weekly Gospel Principals class at every LDS meeting house should bring you up to speed.

Link to comment

Reminds me of the following:

So, I guess is just depends on how you define mortal and immortal.

CFR

Do you have any authority for this assertion?

Also John 10:18 seems to explain what I said from the mouth of Christ very well, he is immortal and has the power to lay down his life if he so chooses and the power to take it back up if he so chooses. No man has the power to take his life from him, this is a commandment from God to Christ.

Is the direct commandment of God "authority" enough for you?

Link to comment

I knew Highlander was going to screw things up by those guys who went around killing each other by cutting off their heads calling themselves "immortals".

www.dictionary.com

immortal.....1. not mortal; not liable or subject to death; undying: our immortal souls. 2. remembered or celebrated through all time: the immortal words of Lincoln. 3. not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting. 4. perpetual; lasting; constant: an immortal enemy. 5. of or pertaining to immortal beings or immortality. 6. (of a laboratory-cultured cell line) capable of dividing indefinitely.
Link to comment

Can't get into lds.org right now so search capacity is limited, did find this:

Because Jesus was mortal he could give his life. Because he was divine it counted. So the blood of the offering represented the Lord
Link to comment

Yes, the authority of God as given through his one true Church. Basic scripture study and the weekly Gospel Principals class at every LDS meeting house should bring you up to speed.

Christ inheriited mortality from his mother. He inherited immortality from His Father. He had both attributes at the time of His birth. There is NOTHING in the scriptures to support your assertion that He somehow gained the power of immortailty on the Mount of Transfiguration. He didn't. He was born with it. Christ was both mortal and immortal from birth. That is baisc LDS doctrine. Basic scripture study and the weekly Gospel Principals class at every LDS meeting house should bring you up to speed.

My previous assertion stands: We (and that includes you) have no idea what it means to be transfigured.

P.S. Thanks calmoriah for the cites. There's tons more from Genearal Authorities. speaking to Christ's dual nature as a mortal and immortal being. Though, when I think about, it may be a misnomer to say Christ was immortal before His resurrection. LIke you said, there is a difference between divinity and immortality. Nevertheless, where the idea comes from that he received the power of immortality on the Mount is still a mystery to me.

Have a nice day y'all.

Link to comment

There is NOTHING in the scriptures to support your assertion that He somehow gained the power of immortailty on the Mount of Transfiguration.

So when did the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon lose there status as Scripture?

The Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price teach us clearly that transfigured beings are immortal, the only way to be immortal is to be a transfigured being and have a Terrestrial body. We currently have a Telestial body, which is mortal, a Terrestrial body has more power and glory than a Telestial body, one of those powers is immortality (not eternal life).

So unless you declare that the transfigurations of the Three Nephites in the Book of Mormon, of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price, and the implied transfiguration of the Apostle John in the New Testament is all lies, Christ was born moral and received immortality when he was transfigured, like the scriptures repeatedly testify.

If Christ was already immortal from birth why was he transfigured then?

Also how is one mortal and immortal at the same time?

Link to comment
So when did the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon lose there status as Scripture?

Quote me a verse in either book which says that Christ gained power of transfiguration on the Mount of Transfiguration. Also note that Mormon specifically states that he did not know if the 3 Nephites were mortal or immortal after their "transfiguration." 3 Nephi 28:15. In other words, even Mormon did not understand what it means to be transfigured.

The Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price teach us clearly that transfigured beings are immortal, the only way to be immortal is to be a transfigured being and have a Terrestrial body. We currently have a Telestial body, which is mortal, a Terrestrial body has more power and glory than a Telestial body, one of those powers is immortality (not eternal life).

I'm not sure what scriptures you are reading to reach these conclusions. Care to share some citations?

So unless you declare that the transfigurations of the Three Nephites in the Book of Mormon, of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price, and the implied transfiguration of the Apostle John in the New Testament is all lies, Christ was born moral and received immortality when he was transfigured, like the scriptures repeatedly testify.

That is not what the scirptures or the General Authorities teach us.

If Christ was already immortal from birth why was he transfigured then?

If I knew what it meant to be transfigured, I could answer that question. But I don't, and neither do you, and that is why we are having this discussion.

Also how is one mortal and immortal at the same time?

By being Christ.

Link to comment

I'm not sure what scriptures you are reading to reach these conclusions. Care to share some citations?

I'm pretty sure this would be related to temple material... but considering I haven't been through temple mairrage, couldn't tell ya' for sure.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...