Jump to content

Where have all the EVs gone?


Vance

Recommended Posts

Couple of comments including a historical question:

Evangelicals, by contrast, are often shocked when co-workers turn on them, or when the country drifts from its heritage. Mormons aren't so easily shaken. After all, the country wasn't theirs to begin with.
also later in the comments:
Mormons have -- from the beginning -- understood how to live as a religious minority in the country and don't take majority rejection in quite the same spirit of panic that so many evangelicals do.
This appears to imply that Evangelicals consider the beginnings of the United States to have involved mostly Evangelicals. I was under the impression that the Evangelical movement was a more recent one.

Is the implication a correct portrayal of Evangelical feeling and if so, why do they see things that way?

---

Since we're busy being spiritual entrepreneurs, revolutionizing the whole concept of church every 90 seconds, we don't have the kind of (relative) theological stability that has marked almost 2,000 years of Catholic history, and we can't come close to matching the (again, relative) uniformity of teaching that marks the Mormon experience.
This is so contrary to how many Evangelicals in discussion with LDS contrasting their belief systems portray the Evangelical movement (which is something very united in doctrine, variations are minor and mostly practice related in my experience) though dead on to how most LDS in my experience view Evangelical organizations (in most cases-----in my experience again---this viewing is superficial, but based on personal experience and perception of differences between Evangelicals they have encountered).

----

And we are often desperate for acceptance. We view the transient scorn of popular culture as a virtual cataclysm, and our distressingly common health and wealth gospels wrongly teach us that Christian faith carries with it measurable earthly pleasures.
Contrast this comment with the many comments by some EVs who claim that LDS faith is one about accommodation with the world, giving in to pressure or PR driven doctrine.
Link to comment

A comment from an apparent Evangelical:

I think the Evangelical problem is not merely a lack of social engagement, it lies in the immature state of their expression of the Body of Christ. When the Body comes together in love, ministry happens, both within the Body and outward to the culture. Our witness is weak at this point because our Body life is weak. And that is because of unresolved offenses, and lovelessness. Visit almost any Christian forum to see this in action.
I have to admit that while I see individual Evangelicals and some Evangelical congregations as excellent examples of being of the Body of Christ, I fail to see it in the greater Evangelical communities because of the very thing this commenter references. Daniel French speaks of greater unity now than in the past, so hopefully this conflict is something that will become a minor issue in the future.
Link to comment

This appears to imply that Evangelicals consider the beginnings of the United States to have involved mostly Evangelicals. I was under the impression that the Evangelical movement was a more recent one.

Some historical revision (at least in their own minds) was done so they could co-opt the founding.

Link to comment

Couple of comments including a historical question:

also later in the comments:This appears to imply that Evangelicals consider the beginnings of the United States to have involved mostly Evangelicals. I was under the impression that the Evangelical movement was a more recent one.

God in America is a great PBS program all should watch

My understanding is that the EVs started out as the persecuted minority in the US

The Anglican church was the state religion and even received tax revenue

The EVs have forgotten their initial cries for freedom of religion

Link to comment

Most EV churches of today actually originated from those pentecostal churches and their pastors who decided to change the tone in style of worship, and in some cases, even doctrine, to attract and suit those of the hippie/counter-culture generation back in the late sixties.

Calvary Chapel is one of those such churches.

And likewise, the pentecostal movements came 50 to 70 years earlier, very much after our church did.

However, if one claims that there is unity among all EV's and their churches, that is total hogwash; such arguments are nothing but smoke and mirrors, because when you get down to more specific doctrines like baptism, speaking in tongues, salvation, prophecy, the trinity (yes there are some pentecostal churches out there that believe like we do about the trinity), and most importantly- the tribulation and how the end times will come about...

You will find that EVs and pentecostals are as diverse as a rainbow.

Link to comment

French's focus is on pro-life.

He mentions how two well known "Evangelicals" Warren and Olsteen seem to be avoiding the fray.

from your cited article

The most popular of the new generation of evangelical pastors
Link to comment
What I find more interesting is his press on the issue that Catholics and LDS both have some distinctly better and more promoted force on the issue of abortion. In the case of the Catholics I am agreeable.. I mean they don't even say prophylactics are okay unless to prevent HIV.

Utah is a very pro-life state that had passed their own ban on partial-birth abortion before Congress did. They also have some of the strictest laws on parental consent and waiting periods in the US. Utah was also one of the 29 states that banned abortion completely before Roe v. Wade. Yet states like Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, and many of the deep south actually had more liberal laws on abortion then.

The reason I say this, is that on some level LDS seem to feel abortion is permissible.

Of course! In cases like tubal pregnancy or severe fetal deformity where the baby couldn't be saved, it would be appalling to not do what you could to save the mothers life!

However, the church wouldn't give approval to such a procedure unless first consulting with God and your local Bishop, or if the circumstances were life-threatening and couldn't wait.

The SBC also believes in exceptions for the life of the mother, BTW.

Link to comment

French's focus is on pro-life.

He mentions how two well known "Evangelicals" Warren and Olsteen seem to be avoiding the fray.

from your cited article

"

For the record, most of the EV's I know, self included, don't consider Olsteen an Evangelical. Apparently lots of people like to listen to him, read his work and so forth. Perhaps the non-Evangelical community sees him as an EV, but he is a "word of faith" preacher who expounds quite a bit of bogus doctrine.

The Chrisitan Research Institute did a critique on one of his books that might help bring some perspective to how he is generally viewed by Evangelicals.

article here

That being said, I am a bit dubious as to French's actual view on Evangelicalism if he is willing to toss Olsteen into the mix and it has certainly cost him credibility from my corner.

But to confess, I don't mind hearing Olsteen once and again, but it's in the same way I don't mind hearing Zig Ziglar, Tony Robbins and so forth.

Warren an Evangelical, doesn't dodge the issue at all IMO and is disapproving of it. I would cite an article, but his standpoint on the record is a Godwin's Law violation. Google his name and abortion if you want to read his take on it.

Another reason for me to take French's position at arms length.

French doesn't appear to have any clear understanding of Evangelicals.

What I find more interesting is his press on the issue that Catholics and LDS both have some distinctly better and more promoted force on the issue of abortion. In the case of the Catholics I am agreeable.. I mean they don't even say prophylactics are okay unless to prevent HIV.

Why the LDS position was put into play by French is a bit beyond me. The reason I say this, is that on some level LDS seem to feel abortion is permissible.

source lds.org

In light of that, I am even wondering if French has any clear view of the LDS position on the topic.

To answer the question of the OP.

The Evangelicals haven't gone anywhere but Mr. French is off base in his assertions.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

My mission president had me read See You at the Top. I found it very insightful and engaging.

Link to comment

I feel bad for the author of this. He obviously has a lot of faith and conviction, but he can't get support from his own people. The latest generation of evangelicals are, and I hate to say this, being cowards. Glad there are guys like this to try to call them to repentance. Maybe that's this guy's calling, and he'll accept baptism by those with true authority in the next life.

Link to comment

I say the next time ev's come seeking help from the Mormons or Catholic, we Mormons and Catholic act as God has acted "slow to hear" their pleas.

In comments of the article is a back and forth of the definition of Christian, one person claim "academia" definition, I just looked in a dictionary and a "christian" is someone who follows the teachings of Christ.

Link to comment

A comment from an apparent Evangelical:I have to admit that while I see individual Evangelicals and some Evangelical congregations as excellent examples of being of the Body of Christ, I fail to see it in the greater Evangelical communities because of the very thing this commenter references. Daniel French speaks of greater unity now than in the past, so hopefully this conflict is something that will become a minor issue in the future.

I am out here in the EV community and there is more unity than conflict, IMO. In the churches I have been a part of, there are organized efforts to work together with other churches on community issues and charitable projects. There is also a lot of unity in basic beliefs, like the Trinity doctrine and salvation by faith/grace alone. The biggest conflict, today, is probably the Arminian/Calvinist discussion. But, even there, "most" Evangelicals respect the other camp and believe they are Christians and brothers/sisters in Christ. A few do not, but most do.

Link to comment

I feel bad for the author of this. He obviously has a lot of faith and conviction, but he can't get support from his own people. The latest generation of evangelicals are, and I hate to say this, being cowards. Glad there are guys like this to try to call them to repentance. Maybe that's this guy's calling, and he'll accept baptism by those with true authority in the next life.

Well, they have a horrible track record

The Moral Majority was an EV collation which helped get Regan elected but not much happened with their agenda

The Christian Collation of America was also an EV coalition that has run it's course without serous impact

Based on these efforts the EVs were much more partisan than the Catholic or Mormon Churches.

They overreach, thinking they can change the country when they organize, and become disillusioned when they don't

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...