volgadon Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 So wouldn't David's argument be stronger if there were a pet
Zakuska Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Moreover, there exists compelling contextual reasoning for Abinadi to commence his citation of the Suffering Servant passage with Isaiah 53:1:
Mortal Man Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 In terms of accuracy in the preservation of original meaning, the Masoretic tradition is always open for debate. Whether right or wrong, the Masoretic text demonstrates the liturgical and interpretive tradition of the Hebrew Bible passed down from antiquity.But given that parashah spacing is a highly subjective process, as evidenced by the differences amongst various masoretic codices in some of the section divisions, why should we expect the breaks in any extant Isaiah scroll to match whatever set
David Bokovoy Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 Perhaps he can explain why Isaiah 48 & 49 constitute a single literary unit and why Nephi had a sophisticated understanding of Isaiah's original meaning in these chapters.Sure, this is an easy one. The Dead Sea Scroll, IQIsa separates Isaiah 48 into two equal parts, vv 1-11 and 12-22. Note that this textual division reflects the form critical fact that Isaiah 48 contains two separate prophetic accusations calling Israel to listen to the Lord
David Bokovoy Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 But given that parashah spacing is a highly subjective process, as evidenced by the differences amongst various masoretic codices in some of the section divisions, why should we expect the breaks in any extant Isaiah scroll to match whatever set
Vance Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 The Book of Mormon commentary to Isaiah is much more detailed and frequently much more profound then anything we see in the NT.Interesting point.
Mortal Man Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Ha.You should join my side Mola. I have peanuts.
Bill Hamblin Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 You should join my side Mola. I have peanuts.Alas, Mortal Man has been shown to be wrong on just about every claim he has made here. It should be worth noting that there is no reason whatsoever to assume that Nephi's literary units within Isaiah should match modern scholarly conceptions of literary units, since in the ancient world there were many different conceptions of literary units, and they often don't match modern conceptions. Second, it should be noted that citations from Isaiah in ancient Jewish and Christian sources can be anything from an allusion, a word, a line, a verse or a passage. It was not the standard practice of ancient peoples to cite Isaiah based the literary units as they perceived them. Finally, it is worth nothing that Nephi's commentary on Isaiah is far more nuanced and profound than most LDS realize, and far more sophisticated than the facile criticisms of the anti-Mormons.
Vance Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Alas, Mortal Man has been shown to be wrong on just about every claim he has made here. I was about ready to join the dark his side because he said he had peanuts. Now I can't be sure about even that.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 You should join my side Mola. I have peanuts.Oh, I am gonna need more than peanuts to join your side. I need, at the very least, a pizza.
Mortal Man Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Sometimes Book of Mormon authors do begin or end their citation of Isaiah at mid-sentence or mid-paragraph. I find Lehi
David Bokovoy Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 Oh, I am gonna need more than peanuts to join your side. I need, at the very least, a pizza.If that's all it takes, I'm on my way to the Pizza Pie Cafe in Provo and I'll pick you up a slice. I've never been, but from what I hear, it's all you can eat, including such novelties as the infamous Oreo cookie pizza. Just sayin!
David Bokovoy Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 I'll be interested to see if Rob agrees with this.How could he not?!It think it's time for an analogy...And I'll match yours. This analogy is called "moving the goalposts." A kicker in football sends the ball directly through the uprights for a three point field goal, only to have the opponent move the posts once the kick has been made.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 How could he not?!And I'll match yours. This analogy is called "moving the goalposts." A kicker in football sends the ball directly through the uprights for a three point field goal, only to have the opponent move the posts once the kick has been made.This is truely great. David, you do have a sense of humor. If that's all it takes, I'm on my way to the Pizza Pie Cafe in Provo and I'll pick you up a slice. I've never been, but from what I hear, it's all you can eat, including such novelties as the infamous Oreo cookie pizza. I think we can be friends now. Not that we were enemies before.....
Mortal Man Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Alas, Mortal Man has been shown to be wrong on just about every claim he has made here.I have? I guess I missed it.It should be worth noting that there is no reason whatsoever to assume that Nephi's literary units within Isaiah should match modern scholarly conceptions of literary units, since in the ancient world there were many different conceptions of literary units, and they often don't match modern conceptions. Second, it should be noted that citations from Isaiah in ancient Jewish and Christian sources can be anything from an allusion, a word, a line, a verse or a passage. It was not the standard practice of ancient peoples to cite Isaiah based the literary units as they perceived them.Can you provide an example of another source with such lengthy and extensive quotations from Isaiah? I can.Finally, it is worth nothing that Nephi's commentary on Isaiah is far more nuanced and profound than most LDS realize, and far more sophisticated than the facile criticisms of the anti-Mormons.Gandalf demonstrated a profound understanding of the scroll of Isildur, far more nuanced than most orcs realized, and far more sophisticated than the facile criticisms of Saruman.
Mortal Man Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Oh, I am gonna need more than peanuts to join your side. I need, at the very least, a pizza.How 'bout a pizza with peanuts on top?
Mortal Man Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 This analogy is called "moving the goalposts." A kicker in football sends the ball directly through the uprights for a three point field goal, only to have the opponent move the posts once the kick has been made.I've never seen such a thing. I think that would be pretty hard to do. Can you point me to a YouTube video?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I've never seen such a thing. I think that would be pretty hard to do. Can you point me to a YouTube video?I probably can't show you a youtube video of David's scenario but I think I can find something equally entertainging.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iynjbm-al9Q
Bill Hamblin Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I was about ready to join the dark his side because he said he had peanuts. Now I can't be sure about even that. We've got cashews.
Bill Hamblin Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I have? I guess I missed it.And that is exactly your problem.
Zakuska Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 I've never seen such a thing. I think that would be pretty hard to do. Can you point me to a YouTube video?Well Historically... the Goal posts were indeed moved to the back of the endzone in 1927, then moved back again in 1932, only to be moved once again in 1974.The goalposts were originally located on the goal line; this led to many injuries and sometimes interfered with play, and the NCAA moved the goal posts to the rear of the end zone in 1927. The NFL (still following NCAA rules at the time) followed suit, but moved the posts back to the goal line in 1932, where they remained until 1974. The Canadian game still has posts on the goal line.Thus the phrase has gained popularity.http://en.wikipedia....nadian_football)
Vance Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 We've got cashews.Oh yummmm! Cashews are much much better than peanuts.
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