"How Corporatism Has Undermined and Subverted The Church of Jesus Christ"

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I tried posting this at LDS.net, to get some reactions, and it lasted all of 20 min... so it was recommended that I try here...

How Corporatism Has Undermined and Subverted The Church of Jesus Christ

Thought? Reactions?

[Obiwan]

Just a bunch of "misrepresenting" bable... A little truth used to tell great lies about God's Church.

[Hick Preacher]

I tried posting this at LDS.net, to get some reactions, and it lasted all of 20 min... so it was recommended that I try here...

How Corporatism Has Undermined and Subverted The Church of Jesus Christ

Thought? Reactions?

That is an interesting commentary.

It seems to me that conditions have been so harsh against certain LDS doctrines and practices, that protecting the Church with its present corporate structure and policy has been necessary.

Mormonism as a religion reveals its sacred knowledge and information in progressive steps.. These layers are revealed to certain people only under certain conditions. The progressive disclosure of this information seems to be a mechanism to protect both the initiate, and to also protect the Church organization. The administration of this information to its various audiences is now controlled by a legal corporation. This corporation seems to be an adaptation needed for survival due to potential hostile cultural conditions and the political environment of Utah, and of the culture of The United States, and also state of affairs found in the international world. The corporation of the LDS Church is the fortress of Mormonism. I do not think it could exist and keep going with out it.

[mediator]

I liked that piece. I think it said many things that most people realize, but don't want to be the ones to complain about it.

[William Schryver]

I stumbled on Alan Waterman's review of Daymon Smith's book, which led me to a thread on By Common Consent where I posted the following:

William Schryver Says: (November 2, 2010 at 12:01 pm)

Not being a regular follower of BCC, I

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Your point about the church needing to grow financially in order to purchase lands in Jackson County (as the revelation calls for) would be better received by me if they were actually doing that and trying to beautify Jackson County as much as they do in Salt Lake County. Jackson County has one of the highest meth rates in the country, and the crime to go with it. You would think they would be more interested, then they seem to be, in helping to turn the area around. They probably feel that the Lord will just cleanse the land and they will march right in and take-over, but I know plenty of non-LDS Book of Mormon believers who have diligently sought to redeem the area and prepare it for the New Jerusalem, that I don't believe such nonsense.

[CV75]

Thought? Reactions?

Poor Daymon Smith ("With friends like you...")... "Buy This Book"!?!? I don't think anyone could have made the man or the book look more lame.

[cinepro]

It was interesting to read the Church's charter, where the rules of succession are spelled out in legal form:

Fourth: The title of the person making these articles of incorporation is "President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." He and his successor in office shall be deemed and are hereby created a body politic and corporation sole with perpetual succession, having all the powers and rights and authority in these articles specified or provided for by law. But in the event of death or resignation from office of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or in the event of a vacancy in that office from any cause, the President or Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of said Church, or one of the members of said Quorum thereunto designated by that Quorum, shall, pending the installation of a successor President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, be the corporation sole under these articles, and the laws pursuant to which they are made, and shall be and is authorized in his official capacity to execute in the name of the corporation all documents or other writings necessary to the carrying on of its purposes, business and objects, and to do all things in the name of the corporation which the original signer of the articles of incorporation might do; it being the purpose of these articles that there shall be no failure in succession in the office of such corporation sole.

[Brade]

It was interesting to read the Church's charter, where the rules of succession are spelled out in legal form:

I also thought that was really interesting.

[Calm]

Are there comparisons to the organization of churches of about the same size operating internationally including how effective they are in terms of dealing with new growth, welfare and other humanitarian aspects, doctrinal disputes, etc?

[Damien the Leper]

Poor Daymon Smith ("With friends like you...")... "Buy This Book"!?!? I don't think anyone could have made the man or the book look more lame.

Fantastic article! Thanks for sharing.

[semlogo]

What's the deal with the text formatting here?

[Brade]

What's the deal with the text formatting here?

I don't know. It's spreading like a virus.

[Damien the Leper]

Just a bunch of "misrepresenting" bable... A little truth used to tell great lies about God's Church.

Perhaps you could provide a more productive counter argument presented by the blogger? Your opinion is useless babble in comparison to the research provided.

[CV75]

Fantastic

...as in eccentric...

[Doctor Steuss]

Jackson County has one of the highest meth rates in the country, and the crime to go with it.

Got a reference handy? A couple of months ago when I found out that my state (Nevada) might have the highest rate, I was trying to find meth stats by county and couldn't find anything (I could only find info by state, and a handful of counties that issued individual reports).

[LeSellers]

What's the deal with the text formatting here?

We saw this once before. I believe that it arises from William Schryver's sig that has bold and italic fonts in it with no terminating, "regular" font following.

Lehi

[Obiwan]

Perhaps you could provide a more productive counter argument presented by the blogger? Your opinion is useless babble in comparison to the research provided.

What.... A person isn't allowed to simply express their "opinion" about something, that they must write a "THESIS" instead every time they comment on something??? I give my "detailed" views and arguments about things all the time. I'm under no obligation to do so on every subject every single moment of my life simply because you don't like it. I just don't have the TIME right now. Is that not good enough for you? Sorry.

Get over yourself!

[LifeOnaPlate]

Smith is an interesting guy, at least from what I can gather from his Internet personality. A few weeks ago there was a dust up about an article he wrote for the website Patheos which was not published. He argued that the all-pervading power of correlation was to blame, and complained about the state of Mormon studies generally. There was a response to him on the FPR blog, and Smith didn't take it very well. He basically blew a gasket.

http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/10/d-smith-is-a-sinner/

[Calm]

Exactly why are we expected to accept his claims as factual when he states that his work is a work of fiction (and in doing so says that this will allow people to dismiss his claims, etc. etc.)?

I am trying to get my head around the logic of his presentation, his expectation of both being dismissed and taken seriously in the same breath...doesn't really make it for me on any level.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Got a reference handy? A couple of months ago when I found out that my state (Nevada) might have the highest rate, I was trying to find meth stats by county and couldn't find anything (I could only find info by state, and a handful of counties that issued individual reports).

Sure...

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-meth-numbers-020410,0,897774.story

You're welcome.

[dbschroeder]

Hmmm..this is the road to apostasy.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Reading anything not faith promoting is the "high road to apostacy" according to most LDS folks.

[kolipoki09]

Reading anything not faith promoting is the "high road to apostacy" (sic) according to most LDS folks.

You know, I read Angela's Ashes when I was a teenager and came to appreciate Frank McCourt's work. Not exactly faith-promoting literature, and yet I still have my faith. I read Rocky Hulse's polemically anti-Mormon book When Salt Lake City Calls and yet never lost my faith. I've personally debated several Church critics and yes....I still have my faith.

Not all anti-Mormon books are created equal. Some are very well written and contain valid criticisms deserving valid and sound answers. Others are ridiculous, condescending, sensationalized, and quite frankly not worth much attention.

Reading anti-Mormon material has (for me at least) strengthened my faith in the long run. The fact that other Latter-day Saints choose not to read it does not imply that they're burying their heads in the sand when it comes to criticism.

[kolipoki09]

Sure...

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-meth-numbers-020410,0,897774.story

You're welcome.

The article still didn't say that Jackson County was among the highest. It said Missouri led the nation on average when it comes to meth labs in proportion to the state population. Other states however, do in fact have more meth labs.

What point do you have to raise by pointing out meth-use numbers? Does the importance Mormonism places on Jackson County somehow mean that Latter-day Saints are responsible for large meth use in the state? What straws are you trying to grab here?

You also tried to claim that Jackson County is among the highest in crime. Do you have a reference for that, or is this yet another unsubstantiated claim twisted to reflect poorly on Mormonism?