God was once a man who dwelt on an earth

[beforHim]

I'm probably beating a dead horse, but at some other forums I saw some LDS saying that God/the Father was eternal, and also some people who flatout rejected the Father living like we did on some other earth. How do you reconcile the Father always being the Father (as He is now) from eternity, yet he once dwellt on an earth?

I'm sure I just don't understand the saying, or the context, or something like that. I'm sure you can get way too speculative. I don't want to get speculative but stay on doctrine. This will definitely be brought up in tonight's panel discussion I am attending, so I hope to have some understanding of it. Cool.

Thx a ton!

[volgadon]

How do you reconcile the Father always being the Father (as He is now) from eternity, yet he once dwellt on an earth?

If Christ could do it...

[Nofear]

While I personally disagree with most of Ostler's theology, you might find his solution appealing: Re-vision-ing the Mormon Concept of Deity.

[semlogo]

I actually really like the idea of God having started out as a regular person. But then there is another scripture (in POGP? D&C?) that says God started out as the greatest of intelligences and then He organized the intelligences. I'm not sure how the two ideas can be reconciled.

[TAO]

LDS Doctrine is that both the Father and the Son have a body of Flesh and Bones (but not the Holy Ghost, obviously). How the father got his body though, isn't quite layed out... but considering that we (and Christ) got our bodies by coming to an Earth (for there is not only this one)... one can make an assumption as to how Father got his body. Part of the reason we originally came here is because we thought his body was very cool - and we wanted one.

[cdowis]

How do you reconcile the Father always being the Father (as He is now) from eternity, yet he once dwellt on an earth?

The short answer -- Father is a title. For example, Christ also has the title of Father.

You might find John 5:19 instructive -- Christ has done only that which he himself has seen the Father do. So, look at the life of Christ, and you will see that it is a reflection of that which the Father has done. The Father was never an "ordinary" person.

[ERayR]

I actually really like the idea of God having started out as a regular person. But then there is another scripture (in POGP? D&C?) that says God started out as the greatest of intelligences and then He organized the intelligences. I'm not sure how the two ideas can be reconciled.

Simply. God was the first that progressed from ??? to the ultimate. As such he is the greatest and has made it his work and his glory to point the way for others.

[semlogo]

Simply. God was the first that progressed from ??? to the ultimate. As such he is the greatest and has made it his work and his glory to point the way for others.

Yes but how does that match up with him being a mortal man? And yet starting out as an intelligence who organized other intelligences?

[TAO]

Yes but how does that match up with him being a mortal man? And yet starting out as an intelligence who organized other intelligences?

Semlogo... we are intelligences still... they are inside of us. They will always be inside of us.

[CA Steve]

LDS Doctrine is that both the Father and the Son have a body of Flesh and Bones (but not the Holy Ghost, obviously). How the father got his body though, isn't quite layed out... but considering that we (and Christ) got our bodies by coming to an Earth (for there is not only this one)... one can make an assumption as to how Father got his body. Part of the reason we originally came here is because we thought his body was very cool - and we wanted one.

Tao,

You always get me on tangents

Do we know why the Holy Ghost does not have a body?

[LeSellers]

How do you reconcile the Father always being the Father (as He is now) from eternity, yet he once dwellt on an earth?

The key, assuming this was definitive doctrine, is in understanding the relationship we have with time and how it (may) differ from the relationship God has with time.

He is "the Eternal", which is more than just a name/title. It is a description, but it is, as are all references to infinity, incomprehensible to us mortals. Eternal, according to LDS doctrine is His name for more than just that it describes His position in time (although we do not claim to understand this part in full, either).

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore

[semlogo]

Semlogo... we are intelligences still... they are inside of us. They will always be inside of us.

No, our spirits were formed from intelligences. Now they are spirits, not intelligences.

That's like saying a cake is an egg because eggs were used to make it.

[ERayR]

Yes but how does that match up with him being a mortal man? And yet starting out as an intelligence who organized other intelligences?

You seem to be conflating physical with mortal. God is not mortal he is pysical. Presumably he passed through a mortal state, like we are doing, sometime a long time back. He deemed it a benificial experience and incorporated it into his plan for other intelligences.

Physical is not necessarily mortal.

[semlogo]

You seem to be conflating physical with mortal. God is not mortal he is pysical. Presumably he passed through a mortal state, like we are doing, sometime a long time back. He deemed it a benificial experience and incorporated it into his plan for other intelligences.

Physical is not necessarily mortal.

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and ... God ... (were) to make himself visible ... if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form -- like yourselves in all the person, image, and the very form as a man."

[ERayR]

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and ... God ... (were) to make himself visible ... if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form -- like yourselves in all the person, image, and the very form as a man."

So. I am not disputing that statement at all. What's your point?

[semlogo]

So. I am not disputing that statement at all. What's your point?

"We are now" mortal.

[ERayR]

"We are now" mortal.

Yes?

[semlogo]

Yes?

Ergo if God was as we are now, He was mortal. I'm sure you knew where I was going.

[ERayR]

Ergo if God was as we are now, He was mortal. I'm sure you knew where I was going.

I have no idea where you are going. The operative word in your statement is "was" but for him that was long ago. For us the operative concept is that we are his children. The same kind of being. His family. We "can" become what he has become. And all this by not diminishing him one iota.

[semlogo]

I have no idea where you are going. The operative word in your statement is "was" but for him that was long ago. For us the operative concept is that we are his children. The same kind of being. His family. We "can" become what he has become. And all this by not diminishing him one iota.

Agreed.

[Nofear]

No, our spirits were formed from intelligences. Now they are spirits, not intelligences.

That's like saying a cake is an egg because eggs were used to make it.

I quite disagree with your statement - distinction. Granted what is meant my intelligence has a lot of uncertainty to it (see encyclopedia of mormonism intelligences) my favored interpretation is that there exists a fundamental form of primal entity which is self-existent. This fundamental primal entity was organized with a spirit body expanding its capacity to act but not fundamentally altering its nature. But without that intelligent core, my spirit body would be as dead as my physical body is without a spirit body.

Others take on a more animistic interpretation -- the spirit body is composed of little self-existent "intelligent" particles. But when composed as a whole leads to an intelligent spirit. I shy away from this approach as it can lead to a view which has been officially condemned as false by the First Presidency.

Anyway, this is mostly secondary to the main question of the thread and so I'll simply chime in this view but otherwise let it go.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I'm probably beating a dead horse, but at some other forums I saw some LDS saying that God/the Father was eternal, and also some people who flatout rejected the Father living like we did on some other earth. How do you reconcile the Father always being the Father (as He is now) from eternity, yet he once dwellt on an earth?

I am unaware of any scripture that says that God has always been (From eternity past)just as he has been now, meansing that none of his attributes have ever changed.

Another way to look at this is to look at how your earthly father operates. Your father will always be your father forever, for all of eternity, that will never change. However, he has not always been a father. There came a point in time when he bacame your father.

In a similar light you can look at God the Father that same way.

What the LDS believe is that God lived on an earth just as Christ has lived on this earth.

THere is a scripture in the bible that backs up this belief quite nicely.

John 5: 19

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

From this verse we learn that Jesus can only do the things that he has seen the Father do. So one asks what did Jesus do?

I'm sure I just don't understand the saying, or the context, or something like that. I'm sure you can get way too speculative. I don't want to get speculative but stay on doctrine. This will definitely be brought up in tonight's panel discussion I am attending, so I hope to have some understanding of it. Cool.

Thx a ton!

I hope to shed some light on this subject. There has been much speculation on the matter and the only thing I hold as doctrine is, that As man is God once was, as God is we may become.

[Ceeboo]

This will definitely be brought up in tonight's panel discussion I am attending, so I hope to have some understanding of it. Cool.

Thx a ton!

Hello beforHim,

Might I suggest that when this is brought up tonight, you simply start a 9-13 minute coughing attack. (This just might do the trick )

Peace,

Ceeboo

[beforHim]

In an extreme hurry:

I've seen discussions abou Jesus.God beng in a body, and all that.

Wat I'm wondering about is the phrase/belief/doctrine: "He dwellt on an earth, like us". Either a)this means what it says, b) it means something which we don't understand. Sorry, I'm in a rush, so this was quick. Did God dwell, like us, on an eartyj, or is this too much into speculation and such,a nd what does it entail?

[Lightbearer]

In an extreme hurry:

I've seen discussions abou Jesus.God beng in a body, and all that.

Wat I'm wondering about is the phrase/belief/doctrine: "He dwellt on an earth, like us". Either a)this means what it says, b) it means something which we don't understand. Sorry, I'm in a rush, so this was quick. Did God dwell, like us, on an eartyj, or is this too much into speculation and such,a nd what does it entail?

Yes God was once a man and lived on an earth just as we do. The following is from the Gospel Principles manual:

(