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Utah as a Place for Doing Business


Daniel Peterson

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Since I rely on anti-Mormon and ex-Mormon critics for my information, I've always understood that the Mormons have made Utah a kind of living hell.

Imagine my surprise, therefore, when I found out that the Morg had somehow gotten to the editors of Forbes magazine and induced them to write the following article:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/13/best-states-for-business-business-beltway-best-states.html

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Since I rely on anti-Mormon and ex-Mormon critics for my information, I've always understood that the Mormons have made Utah a kind of living hell.

Imagine my surprise, therefore, when I found out that the Morg had somehow gotten to the editors of Forbes magazine and induced them to write the following article:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/13/best-states-for-business-business-beltway-best-states.html

What's that bit about "an educated labor force?" I thought all Mo's were ignorant rubes whose knuckles drag on the ground. At least, that's what our impartial social commentators have been telling me.

Regards,

Pahoran

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Since I rely on anti-Mormon and ex-Mormon critics for my information, I've always understood that the Mormons have made Utah a kind of living hell.

Imagine my surprise, therefore, when I found out that the Morg had somehow gotten to the editors of Forbes magazine and induced them to write the following article:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/10/13/best-states-for-business-business-beltway-best-states.html

Who would have seen this comming? Obviously it just means that the church really is true.

Actually I am quite pleased and was really not surprised. There have been quite a bit of people moving their business here, or at least of plans to move their business here. I think we are really blessed and lucky. Apparently we are doing something correct in the way of our policies to get the business.

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As one out-of-stater told me, Utah is great because you can find lots of employees that are responsible, married folk that show up to work sober. On the downside, he said it wasn't so easy to find a good place to drink.

But was he able to connect the dots?

Regards,

Pahoran

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But was he able to connect the dots?

Regards,

Pahoran

Because a minimum wage that has always sat at the federal minimum, a pro business state government, and cheap land and energy costs have nothing to do with it.

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what the actually data means would be more telling. It is important to remember that this poll is about what is good for business, not about what is good for the labor force. and what is good for business is not generally good for the labor force.

Educated labor, Yes, I believe that, many people who grew up in Utah do not want to leave Utah and earn and degree in Utah, and many people who leave Utah leave only for education and return, so I have no doubt there is a ready educated labor force. The high education rate can be attributed to the LDS Church emphasis on earning an education.

However, what is the pay? How does the average salary and cost of living in Utah compare to the rest of the US? COST is one of the criteria, if you, have a desperate labor force who are unwilling to move, then an employer can pay a low wage/salary.

Environmental controls is also a criteria, and if cost is a criteria, then less environmental controls would mean less cost to the company, so although the following statement is just my assumption, it is probably not out of the ball park to say that a pro-business State is going to very concerned about environmental things (Texas ranked 7 on the poll, and I can tell you Texas is not too concerned with environmental issue.)

"We want to make sure we don't have any nonsensical regulations that inhibit the private sector from expanding and having a profitable bottom line," yes the all mighty dollar. It is probably true that Utah is not very Union friendly, which means, once again, a desperate labor force unwilling to move will take what ever they are offered without question.

Bottom line, I don't think working people of Utah should be all too happy, a pro business environment means that the worker is getting less than the short end of the stick.

*when I was high school the county I lived in ranked #1 in the Nation ... number 1 with the highest number of STD cases (this was in our text book)

When I was in college, Texas ranked #1 or the Top 10 in several areas ... highest number of uninsured children, highest levels of pollution

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I've been itching for a venue to report on an experience I had a few years ago that bears somewhat on the topic of this thread.

I flew to Austin, TX for a week's worth of training. On the hop from Dallas/Ft Worth to Austin I sat next to this woman who studiously ignored me throughout the flight while reading a book, but as we were making our descent into Austin's airport suddenly started talking to me. It wasn't much of a conversation, as she seemed more interested in talking than listening, so I just let her burble on with an occasional "Oh," "Mm," or a sage nod, and suchlike. It appeared that she was actually from the SLC area and apparently owned a nightclub or something like that, and man I tell you, she was having nothing but trouble from those darned Mormons. They were trying to drive her out of the state, she claimed. But she, doggone it, wasn't going to be driven! After she ran that topic to its apparent limits, and we had landed and she was free to get on her cellphone, she started ignoring me again and having a conversation with whomever was picking her up. I resisted mightily the urge to get out my copy of the Book of Mormon, which was in my carry-on luggage, and either read it or casually hold it so she could happen to read the title, but I resisted the temptation to embarrass her. Did I do rightly?

I've been marveling at this experience ever since. And clearly, to this woman, Utah IS a living hell.

Which made me wonder, what, besides pure defiance, kept her from moving her business to where people like to drink? Like Austin, Texas, for instance. She clearly knew how to get there.

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Because a minimum wage that has always sat at the federal minimum, a pro business state government, and cheap land and energy costs have nothing to do with it.

Right, cos low labour costs and cheap land clearly have everything to do with people showing up to work sober....

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what the actually data means would be more telling. It is important to remember that this poll is about what is good for business, not about what is good for the labor force. and what is good for business is not generally good for the labor force.

Oh, baloney. Did you just get done reading Das Kapital, or something similar? CFR on what is good for business is bad for labor. This is patently absurd,. If things are bad for business, then things are bad for the labor force, precisely because they're bad for business. Or had you noticed that businesses in the world are currently suffering from a terrible recession, and what a surprise, it's an unemployment nightmare! Workers just love that.

Educated labor, Yes, I believe that, many people who grew up in Utah do not want to leave Utah and earn and degree in Utah, and many people who leave Utah leave only for education and return, so I have no doubt there is a ready educated labor force. The high education rate can be attributed to the LDS Church emphasis on earning an education.

However, what is the pay? How does the average salary and cost of living in Utah compare to the rest of the US? COST is one of the criteria, if you, have a desperate labor force who are unwilling to move, then an employer can pay a low wage/salary.

This isn't the late 1800's or early 1900's. People can and do leave Utah all the time, for employment, for preference, for practically any reason at all. Nobody's being forced to stay there. We have lots of Utah expatriates in our ward in Washington state, there seems to be no exit visas required. And yet there's a lot of people who leave Utah for education and come back, as you say. I wonder why that is? Maybe things are pretty good there.

Environmental controls is also a criteria, and if cost is a criteria, then less environmental controls would mean less cost to the company, so although the following statement is just my assumption, it is probably not out of the ball park to say that a pro-business State is going to very concerned about environmental things (Texas ranked 7 on the poll, and I can tell you Texas is not too concerned with environmental issue.)

"We want to make sure we don't have any nonsensical regulations that inhibit the private sector from expanding and having a profitable bottom line," yes the all mighty dollar. It is probably true that Utah is not very Union friendly, which means, once again, a desperate labor force unwilling to move will take what ever they are offered without question.

Bottom line, I don't think working people of Utah should be all too happy, a pro business environment means that the worker is getting less than the short end of the stick.

Judging by the wording in your post, you don't live there, and seem to know little about actual conditions there -- yet you have strong opinions on how bad it is there. Why is that?

And yes, things are much better in California, where unions are strong, which has some very restrictive regulation of business, and a state government that is doing so well that, for all intents and purposes, it is bankrupt.

I've got cousins and a daughter who live in Utah, and according to them, it's a great place to live and work and they don't want to leave. Probably because they are masochists at heart and love being miserable.

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Sort of lends credence to the notion that the church is just a business. Just saying.

I love your avatar -- my favorite Monster, however, is Monster Assault.

What exactly "lends credence to the notion that that church is just a business"? That Utah is business-friendly? Is this the extent of your reasoning, or it is just an opportunity to issue insults?

Do you understand what a "non-sequitor" is? If not, please look it up.

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what the actually data means would be more telling. It is important to remember that this poll is about what is good for business, not about what is good for the labor force. and what is good for business is not generally good for the labor force.

How many people can get jobs if there are no businesses? If businesses are struggling, how well can they compensate their employees? If there are few/no businesses and jobs, how much taxes can be taken in? Conversely, If employees are not happy with their jobs, how productive are they? And if employees are unproductive, how well does the business as a whole perform? Do you see the symbiosis between labor and management yet?

Educated labor, Yes, I believe that, many people who grew up in Utah do not want to leave Utah and earn and degree in Utah, and many people who leave Utah leave only for education and return, so I have no doubt there is a ready educated labor force. The high education rate can be attributed to the LDS Church emphasis on earning an education.

However, what is the pay? How does the average salary and cost of living in Utah compare to the rest of the US? COST is one of the criteria, if you, have a desperate labor force who are unwilling to move, then an employer can pay a low wage/salary.

If people are willing to accept that amount for work, how many employees can be hired for $5 versus for $10? How much more gets done with more people? If productivity increases, does a companies ability to compensate it's people improve? (According to Larry Elder, in his book: Ten Things You Can't Say in America, an organization petitioning in CA to raise the minimum wage requested an exemption from the minimum wage law already in place so they could hire more people.) And if people aren't willing to work for a given compensation, you have to meet their requirements or do business elsewhere.

Environmental controls is also a criteria, and if cost is a criteria, then less environmental controls would mean less cost to the company, so although the following statement is just my assumption, it is probably not out of the ball park to say that a pro-business State is going to very concerned about environmental things (Texas ranked 7 on the poll, and I can tell you Texas is not too concerned with environmental issue.)

"We want to make sure we don't have any nonsensical regulations that inhibit the private sector from expanding and having a profitable bottom line," yes the all mighty dollar. It is probably true that Utah is not very Union friendly, which means, once again, a desperate labor force unwilling to move will take what ever they are offered without question.

Bottom line, I don't think working people of Utah should be all too happy, a pro business environment means that the worker is getting less than the short end of the stick.

*when I was high school the county I lived in ranked #1 in the Nation ... number 1 with the highest number of STD cases (this was in our text book)

When I was in college, Texas ranked #1 or the Top 10 in several areas ... highest number of uninsured children, highest levels of pollution

Anything else I would say has already been said, except that I recommend Orson Scott Card's essay, Why Union Leaders Are Trying to Destroy Themselves.

Yours under the Truffled oaks,

Nathair /|\

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If I could move my business (and family) from CA to UT, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Ditto. The intellectuals in this state have taxed it and spent it to death. I would do it even if I had to put up with all the Mormons suddenly in my life.

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I kind of have mixed feelings about my Montana being way down at #24. While it would be nice to have better job opportunities, if it improved too much, our population might increase. Then we wouldn't be the "Last, Best Place" anymore. One of the things that mates Montana the best place to live is our low population density. (also the best fresh water fishing, hunting, hiking, camping, and non-oceanic outdoor activities anywhere in the lower 48.)

Yours under the Big Sky oaks,

Nathair /|\

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I love your avatar -- my favorite Monster, however, is Monster Assault.

What exactly "lends credence to the notion that that church is just a business"? That Utah is business-friendly? Is this the extent of your reasoning, or it is just an opportunity to issue insults?

Do you understand what a "non-sequitor" is? If not, please look it up.

Just saying Mormons have a knack for business and the church runs like a business. Not necessarily a bad thing.

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Ditto. The intellectuals in this state have taxed it and spent it to death. I would do it even if I had to put up with all the Mormons suddenly in my life.

Yep. That's one reason I have always resisted the notion of moving to Utah: too many Mormons.

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Just saying Mormons have a knack for business and the church runs like a business. Not necessarily a bad thing.

OK, but the way you put it originally didn't sound particularly positive.

And this Mormon wishes he had a knack for business. Maybe it's something that requires Utah air to work properly. Gosh I hope not.

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Ditto. The intellectuals in this state have taxed it and spent it to death. I would do it even if I had to put up with all the Mormons suddenly in my life.

It's the politicians of the last three decades (and especially the last 10 years) that have created this mess, and I'm not sure how they could generally be classified as "intellectuals". Certainly the ones that seem to create the most problems (and show the most intent to ignore the problems and allow them to grow) don't appear to be intellectually motivated.

Ultimately, it's the people of California who are to blame. And the day or reckoning will soon be at hand. :P

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