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"for out of Zion shall go forth the law" - Isaiah 2


Sevenbak

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The other thread on what "Ute" means got me thinking about this, and it probably needs it's own thread. I hope this doesn't turn too political, but it might.

In Isaiah 2, (and reiterated in the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 12) we read:

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord

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Thoughts?

One, at least. Your interpretation draws on the implication of the English word "law", rather than the Hebrew "torah". Understandable hen one realises the dependance of the KJV committee on the commentaries of David Kimhi, who interpreted the verse as a legal decree to the nations.

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Thoughts?

One, at least. Your interpretation draws on the implication of the English word "law", rather than the Hebrew "torah". Understandable hen one realises the dependance of the KJV committee on the commentaries of David Kimhi, who interpreted the verse as a legal decree to the nations.

Well, if you don't agree with how Isaiah is translated in the KJV, you'll have a problem with how Joseph translated Nephi. It's the same.

But it's not my interpretation. It's George Albert Smith's dedicatory prayer.

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Just some thoughts as they come to me...

In II Nephi 3:38-41 (rlds) the prophet speaks of praying day and night and how the Lord heard him. He sent his voice "up in high" and angels came down and ministered to him. Then he speaks of how the wings of the Spirit carried him away upon exceedingly high mountains where his eyes were opened. He beheld great and marvelous things, insights he was forbidden to write down.

I do not believe this references a literal mountain where he was able to see things which he was forbidden to write. Rather he saw things in the Spirit as they are and will be. In essence, the notion of being "taught from on high". Joseph wrote something similar in Doctrine and Covenants (43:4 rlds/43 lds) where he said:

"Ye are not sent forth to be taught, but to teach the children of men the things which I have put into your hands by the power of my Spirit; and ye are to be taught from on high..."

So in my opinion, what we are reading here is not a literal mountain which we must climb in order to learn the ways of God or to see prophetically. It is referencing how we will be taught by the Spirit

Next regarding the law:

In II Nephi (11:58 rlds) we are told that every word which Christ speaks to us shall be the law we shall do. So in essence, the gospel of Jesus is the law and not mere rules and regulations. It is the law which sets us free and this law is every word which Jesus speaks in Scripture and through the prophets in every age.

So the Law coming from Zion can denote the gospel of Jesus and how in the latter days, he will send his servants out into the world during the time of gathering. We are told that "kings will shut their mouths for the things they will be told and shall see, and things which they had never heard before they will consider..." (III Nephi 9:83 rlds)

Servants will be sent out from Zion and people will be gathered too Zion. The Chief Mountain of the Lord where wisdom and revelation flows. Anyway, just things to consider...

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Well, if you don't agree with how Isaiah is translated in the KJV, you'll have a problem with how Joseph translated Nephi. It's the same.

So? There are several KJV errors in the BoM.

His point is that we should try to understand "law" as the ancients would have i.e. the Torah. Not "law" as a modern legal decree.

But it's not my interpretation. It's George Albert Smith's dedicatory prayer.

Interesting. Americanized (and perhaps with good reason), but interesting.

Isaiah 2 alludes to the pilgrimage of the New Year's Day festival. The hope was that all nations would come to Yahweh's temple in Jerusalem, hear His Torah, receive judgment, and be united and renewed under Him.

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If you pay attention to how the prophet uses the Isaiah verse, he is not necessarily saying that the constitution of the USA is what is meant, but that it is part of that. What is key is the nations hearkening to inspiration from God, not that the law is the constitution.

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Nice realization there Sevenbak....

I hadn't quite thought of it that way, but I would certainly say the Constitution would be a "part" of the "Law" being spoken of that should come out of Zion. After all, we believe it to be divinely inspired, it matches in many ways the Gospel of Christ and Church doctrine, etc. Thus, I find it perfectly reasonable that the Constitution or that which is similar to it would come out of Zion, along with Church Law, what anti-mormons like to call "works" and "requirements" for salvation and exaltation.

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If you pay attention to how the prophet uses the Isaiah verse, he is not necessarily saying that the constitution of the USA is what is meant, but that it is part of that. What is key is the nations hearkening to inspiration from God, not that the law is the constitution.

Would you consider the influence, even heavy dependence at times of Judeo-Christian beliefs on legal systems (in the West at least) as fulfilling in part this verse?

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Nice realization there Sevenbak....

I hadn't quite thought of it that way, but I would certainly say the Constitution would be a "part" of the "Law" being spoken of that should come out of Zion. After all, we believe it to be divinely inspired, it matches in many ways the Gospel of Christ and Church doctrine, etc. Thus, I find it perfectly reasonable that the Constitution or that which is similar to it would come out of Zion, along with Church Law, what anti-mormons like to call "works" and "requirements" for salvation and exaltation.

Thanks, it makes a lot of sense to me too, given what those freedoms represent to the spreading and acceptance of the Gospel of Christ.

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Here is the relevant Radak (rabbi David Kimhi) passage.

The mountain of the LORD's house: This is Mt. Moriah on which the temple was built. In the top of the mountains: That it would be established, towering, and elevated above any other mountain and hill so that all the gentiles will respect it and honour it and come to worship in it for the Lord's sake. Mountains are mentioned because the gentiles would worship their gods on the high mountains...

Shall go... Come ye, and let us go up: This is what each nation will say to its neighbour.

For out of Zion: These are the words of the prophet, not the words of the nations. That is, why shall the gentiles say, 'Come ye, and let us go up... and he will teach us of his ways... for out of Zion shall go forth torah.' [This is] a commandment for all nations and the one issuing it is the King the Messiah.

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