Jump to content

Questions about D&C 84:114


Solotron

Recommended Posts

Hi Guys,

I've got questions about D&C 84:114, and I came across this site looking for answers. I'm glad I found this site because I wanted to perspectives from people who share my beliefs instead of reading garbage from some anti-mormon website.

Basically my question how are we to understand D&C 84:114 and the prophecies made in reference to it? The relevant verses read as follows:

"114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those cities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the desolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.

115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them desolate."

Verse 115 would suggest that the people in those cities did not reject the gospel and thus those calamities did not occur. I don't think that's very persuasive because the saints who proselyted in those cities at that time did not have much success from what I understand. Also the following prophecy by Wilford Woodruff complicates things:

"While you stand in the towers of the Temple and your eyes survey this glorious valley filled with cities and villages, occupied by tens and thousands of Latter-day Saints, you will then call to mind this visitation of President Young and his company. You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake. It was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not. President Young followed and said: 'What Brother Woodruff has said is revelation and will be fulfilled'." August 1863

I guess I'm having trouble reconciling these prophecies. It seems that Wilford Woodruffs, confirmed by President Young, was prophesying the destruction of those cities during the lifetime of the saints he was talking to. But I'd like to hear the thoughts of much wiser and more experienced brothers and sisters :P

Thank you, in advance, for your comments.

Link to comment

Hi Guys,

I've got questions about D&C 84:114, and I came across this site looking for answers. I'm glad I found this site because I wanted to perspectives from people who share my beliefs instead of reading garbage from some anti-mormon website.

Basically my question how are we to understand D&C 84:114 and the prophecies made in reference to it? The relevant verses read as follows:

"114 Nevertheless, let the bishop go unto the city of New York, also to the city of Albany, and also to the city of Boston, and warn the people of those cities with the sound of the gospel, with a loud voice, of the desolation and utter abolishment which await them if they do reject these things.

115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them desolate."

Verse 115 would suggest that the people in those cities did not reject the gospel and thus those calamities did not occur. I don't think that's very persuasive because the saints who proselyted in those cities at that time did not have much success from what I understand. Also the following prophecy by Wilford Woodruff complicates things:

"While you stand in the towers of the Temple and your eyes survey this glorious valley filled with cities and villages, occupied by tens and thousands of Latter-day Saints, you will then call to mind this visitation of President Young and his company. You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake. It was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not. President Young followed and said: 'What Brother Woodruff has said is revelation and will be fulfilled'." August 1863

I guess I'm having trouble reconciling these prophecies. It seems that Wilford Woodruffs, confirmed by President Young, was prophesying the destruction of those cities during the lifetime of the saints he was talking to. But I'd like to hear the thoughts of much wiser and more experienced brothers and sisters :P

Thank you, in advance, for your comments.

Some prophecies are not subject to that kind of interpretation. For example, since the days of Jesus Christ the Second coming of the Lord has been prophesied of as though it were round the corner. Here are a couple of examples:

Matthew 10
:

23 . . . for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 16
:

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It has been a long time since then, and it hasn

Link to comment

Some prophecies are not subject to that kind of interpretation. For example, since the days of Jesus Christ the Second coming of the Lord has been prophesied of as though it were round the corner. Here are a couple of examples:

Matthew 10
:

23 . . . for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 16
:

28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It has been a long time since then, and it hasn

Link to comment

v 117 and following seems to indicate this is in the last days at the coming of the Savior. In other words teach the to repent so that the won't face the desolation of abomination in the last days.

Link to comment

I think the desolation and abolishment mentioned refers to the people, not the cities.

I think that's a good interpretation; however, I still get stuck on the earthquake, fire, and flooding of the major cities foretold by Wilford Woodruff and confirmed by Brigham Young as something that will come to pass.

Link to comment

I think that's a good interpretation; however, I still get stuck on the earthquake, fire, and flooding of the major cities foretold by Wilford Woodruff and confirmed by Brigham Young as something that will come to pass.

What if they were wrong then? How is that important?

(troll test)

Link to comment

115 For if they do reject these things the hour of their judgment is nigh, and their house shall be left unto them desolate."

JS explained (don't have reference) that one's rejection of the Gospel not only affects them personally, but also their family, their ancestors and posterity for generations. This is implied here by the term "house shall be left desolate." "House" refers to family. The temple work will not be done for their ancestors.

I will do some interpretation here -- we had a discussion here on the church's policy on temple work, that we are only to do the work for our family (as it related, for example, to the holocaust victims). Also the sins of the father will be on their children, i.e. their children will not be taught the Gospel, and may reject it based on the influence of their fathers.

JS was specifically speaking of the Jews who rejected Christ. Their house is left desolate, both ancestors and their posterity even to this very day.

I personally think we can see the effects of this rejection by these people in Boston to this present day, and the curse is only gradually being lifted.

Link to comment

What if they were wrong then? How is that important?

(troll test)

Have I said anything to indicate that I might be a troll?

I know we don't believe in infallible church leaders, but my next question would be, if they were wrong, how do we know when church leaders are speaking as God's messengers and when are they giving their opinions?

This would be a situation where it would appear that they were speaking under the authority of their callings; therefore my current take is that this prophecy hasn't been fulfilled or won't be fulfilled literally. I like the verses in Matthew that the poster above referenced.

Mfbukowski, what do you think about the subject?

Link to comment

I know we don't believe in infallible church leaders, but my next question would be, if they were wrong, how do we know when church leaders are speaking as God's messengers and when are they giving their opinions?

The usual way, by the Spirit. We are not here to be mindless robots.

If it sounds like a troll, looks like a troll....

Link to comment

Have I said anything to indicate that I might be a troll?

It is a very standard anti-Mormon argument- and Mormons know the answer. If you are for real, I have given you the answer. Pray about it. As a good Mormon you know that testimony is the only way we can know the truth of anything.

There is no other answer.

Link to comment

I have lived long to see plenty of things I could not have imagined in my youth- including the fall of communism, and gay rights.

I have seen disasters upon disasters, and been in a couple, and I am surely not about to say that any of these prophecies "have not happened" or could not happen.

Link to comment

The usual way, by the Spirit. We are not here to be mindless robots.

If it sounds like a troll, looks like a troll....

I think you're overly pessimistic. You're right about us not being mindless robots--that's exactly why I wanted to hear opinions on something I didn't understand. There are so many things in Church that make sense to me and there lots of things that don't. Just because there things I don't understand or can't explain, doesn't mean I'm going to abandon my testimony, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't ask questions either. I like to hear the perspectives of other Latter-Day Saints, because at the very least they share the faith I do and will approach the question with similar beliefs. Regardless of whether I completely agree with the opinions, it always helps to discuss topics with those who understand you and who you can trust.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...