The Two Trees

[Deborah]

The Fair Conference was so great. It really was the meat that we all talk about wanting. But one talk on a very unusual subject was the Two Trees. What a great deep, doctrinal look at Adam and Eve and what the Garden was all about. I'll never listen to that story the same.

[handys003]

Shoots Deborah for those of us who have not heard of the Two Trees story. Could you elaborate or link a little more pr favor.

[USU78]

The Fair Conference was so great. It really was the meat that we all talk about wanting. But one talk on a very unusual subject was the Two Trees. What a great deep, doctrinal look at Adam and Eve and what the Garden was all about. I'll never listen to that story the same.

Spill, Deb. I had to leave after Will concluded his presentation.

[poulsenll]

Shoots Deborah for those of us who have not heard of the Two Trees story. Could you elaborate or link a little more pr favor.

The two trees is a view of the Eden story that explains the role of Women and Men in bring to pass the exaltation of God's children.

In its simplest form

Eve partook of the fruit of the "tree of knowledge" (first tree, first door) in order to open the door for our spirits to come to mortal bodies and be able to continue our path to exaltation.

Adam accepted this gift and took upon himself and all male descendents the resposibility of providing access to the fruit of the "tree of life" (2nd tree, 2nd door) by provding Priesthood ordenances required to open the door for our return to the presence of God and partake of Eternal Life.

In other words Eve opened the veil between the pre mortal spirit world and mortality and took upon herself the resposibility to provide mortal tabernacles for our spirits. Adam accepted this gift on our behalf and took upon himself the responsibility to open the veil for our return to the presence of God.

A short synopsis, you will have to hear her complete presentation to understand the full beauty of this concept. Hopefully it will be posted on the FAIR site very soon.

Larry P

[handys003]

The two trees is a view of the Eden story that explains the role of Women and Men in bring to pass the exaltation of God's children.

In its simplest form

Eve partook of the fruit of the "tree of knowledge" (first tree, first door) in order to open the door for our spirits to come to mortal bodies and be able to continue our path to exaltation.

Adam accepted this gift and took upon himself and all male descendent's the responsibility of providing access to the fruit of the "tree of life" (2nd tree, 2nd door) by providing Priesthood ordnances required to open the door for our return to the presence of God and partake of Eternal Life.

In other words Eve opened the veil between the pre mortal spirit world and mortality and took upon herself the responsibility to provide mortal tabernacles for our spirits. Adam accepted this gift on our behalf and took upon himself the responsibility to open the veil for our return to the presence of God.

A short synopsis, you will have to hear her complete presentation to understand the full beauty of this concept. Hopefully it will be posted on the FAIR site very soon.

Larry P

Mahalo ala nui! I look forward to seeing that on FAIR.

BTW your the one with the glyph for an avatar. I couldn't remember. I wanted to know if you got more of those? If so, would it any trouble for you to email to me? They have vast similarities to Hawaiian petroglyph's to exactness. I'm doing some research on Hawaii Ioa and relation to his stop in SW America in 55 BCE.

[Deborah]

Poulsenll gave a good summary but he is right it is only a synopsis and there is so much more. Basically it's a circle beginning with our being in the presence of Heavenly Father and coming to earth and passing through the two doors of the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life to return to heavenly father. Both Adam and Eve had their parts to play in opening the doors for each other. Hudson talked about equality and how each must work with each other in order to complete the circle.

I also liked what she said about seeing how a nation treats its women to see whether that nation will be destroyed or blessed.

[poulsenll]

Mahalo ala nui! I look forward to seeing that on FAIR.

BTW your the one with the glyph for an avatar. I couldn't remember. I wanted to know if you got more of those? If so, would it any trouble for you to email to me? They have vast similarities to Hawaiian petroglyph's to exactness. I'm doing some research on Hawaii Ioa and relation to his stop in SW America in 55 BCE.

That glyph is rock art from the southwest USA. It represents Kokopeli. He was one of the southwest indians gods and was usually considered a fertility god because he carried the seeds of life in his back pack. He is generally accepted as being based on an itinerant trader possibly from Mesoamerica or Mexico. I chose him as my avatar because I think he represents Moroni as he traveled from Cumorah to New York. What better way to hide from his enemies than to travel disguised as a trader and when possible a missionary carrying the seeds of eternal life in the gold plates hid in his trader's pack.

There are a number of rock art glyphs described in internet pages about the southwest indians.

Larry P

[USU78]

Mahalo ala nui! I look forward to seeing that on FAIR.

BTW your the one with the glyph for an avatar. I couldn't remember. I wanted to know if you got more of those? If so, would it any trouble for you to email to me? They have vast similarities to Hawaiian petroglyph's to exactness. I'm doing some research on Hawaii Ioa and relation to his stop in SW America in 55 BCE.

Try this on Kokopelli.

He is found both in Pueblo and Anaszazi petroglyphs and painting.

[poulsenll]

Try this on Kokopelli.

He is found both in Pueblo and Anaszazi petroglyphs and painting.

There is no doubt that Kokopeli as known by the Hopi and Anasazi, is an amalgum of different myths and legends. The fact that some of the Kokopeli rock art predates the Aztec traders suggests a more ancient origin for the legends.

Larry P

[handys003]

Try this on Kokopelli.

He is found both in Pueblo and Anaszazi petroglyphs and painting.

Hmm... Hawaiian break down with the same syllables

Koko = plant, shrub, or tree in relation to agriculture

pe = resembling or also fragrant

li = wrap or roll

Stretching but still seems in relation to agriculture. Sorry to derail Deb.

I'd like to get a whole slab of Hopi words for analysis. They have sacred temple rite also?

[USU78]

Hmm... Hawaiian break down with the same syllables

Koko = plant, shrub, or tree in relation to agriculture

pe = resembling or also fragrant

li = wrap or roll

Stretching but still seems in relation to agriculture. Sorry to derail Deb.

I'd like to get a whole slab of Hopi words for analysis. They have sacred temple rite also?

Try this for a primer. Getting hold of Book of the Hopi is absolutely essential. It's available in paperback for a song . . . and most libraries should have it . . . or can get it for you via ILL. If you're interested in comparing the spiritual life of the Pueblo people and the Polynesians, you need this in your library.

[handys003]

Try this for a primer. Getting hold of Book of the Hopi is absolutely essential. It's available in paperback for a song . . . and most libraries should have it . . . or can get it for you via ILL. If you're interested in comparing the spiritual life of the Pueblo people and the Polynesians, you need this in your library.

Heck yes. However what do you mean by "via ILL"? I never came across that term. You know us local boys we only speak da kine.

[LeSellers]

Heck yes. However what do you mean by "via ILL"? I never came across that term.

ILL = Interlibrary Loan.

Lehi

[USU78]

Poulsenll gave a good summary but he is right it is only a synopsis and there is so much more. Basically it's a circle beginning with our being in the presence of Heavenly Father and coming to earth and passing through the two doors of the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life to return to heavenly father. Both Adam and Eve had their parts to play in opening the doors for each other. Hudson talked about equality and how each must work with each other in order to complete the circle.

I also liked what she said about seeing how a nation treats its women to see whether that nation will be destroyed or blessed.

What an absolutely beautiful notion . . . makes me mist up.

I'm also thinking of the Norse Ask and Embla, Ash and Elm [Vine?], the Adam and Eve of their creation tale attested in the Eddas. We know so little of the beliefs and rituals of our pre-Christian ancestors. It's such a pity.

[cinepro]

I also liked what she said about seeing how a nation treats its women to see whether that nation will be destroyed or blessed.

That's an interesting idea. Did she give some examples of nations that treated their women well and were "blessed" compared to those that didn't treat them well and were "destroyed"?

[David T]

I found her presentation very enjoyable.

If one's looking for an analyses of the original ancient Adam myth as preserved in the Old Testament, this isn't the place to go. You're not going to find it.

However, it is a beautiful expression of a key meaning given to the modified modern LDS version of the myth Today (as developed in the JST and the Temple and further prophetic commentary) and its relationship to teaching principles of the Plan of Salvation as understood today.

Genesis presents the stage and the characters, but the script, story, and purpose has been completely re-written for our day. Kind of like how lately all these movies have been getting 'rebooted' for (supposed) modern relevancy? Same thing's going on here. Except in the case of the doctrinal myth, it's by Prophets, and not for profits

[Deborah]

That's an interesting idea. Did she give some examples of nations that treated their women well and were "blessed" compared to those that didn't treat them well and were "destroyed"?

She actually talked about the Nephites and Lamanites and how the Nephites would be destroyed because they didn't love their wives, and the Lamanites would be blessed because they loved their wives. See Jacob 3 and in particular these verses:

6 And now, this commandment they observe to keep; wherefore, because of this observance, in keeping this commandment, the Lord God will not destroy them, but will be merciful unto them; and one day they shall become a blessed people.

7 Behold, their husbands love their wives, and their wives love their husbands; and their husbands and their wives love their children; and their unbelief and their hatred towards you is because of the iniquity of their fathers; wherefore, how much better are you than they, in the sight of your great Creator?

In regard to polygamy she made an interesting comment, which wasn't part of her presentation but a sidebar because of the discussions on polygamy that day. Having one wife is the norm and unless one is called upon to make the sacrifice of Abraham and Sarah, in every case having more than one living wife is a sin and is not approved. The church was called upon to make this sacrifice for a time, but that time is past. Looking at plural marriage as a sacrifice the church was called to live gives a whole different perspective, particularly when seen with all the other perspectives presented during the conference.

[Deborah]

Also she had a discussion on how Mother Eve in making her choice to go through the first door knew the suffering her daughters would endure throughout history, including rape, unrighteous dominion, being treated as property, but made the choice anyway knowing in the end all their suffering would be worth it to return to Heavenly Father. But they would be returning with the knowledge and ability to live as he does.

[HiJolly]

I enjoyed the presentation, and love the symbology. Beautiful!

HiJolly

[hagoth7]

What an absolutely beautiful notion . . . makes me mist up.

I'm also thinking of the Norse Ask and Embla, Ash and Elm [Vine?], the Adam and Eve of their creation tale attested in the Eddas.

We know so little of the beliefs and rituals of our pre-Christian ancestors. It's such a pity.

Some of the so-called pre-Christian eras contain evidence of Christianity.