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"Dating Fanny Alger"


DonBradley

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When was the sealing power restored?

I don't know. But it seems that the parents of fanny and her brother had no problem with her relationship with Joseph Smith. And they remained church members and settled in utah. I would think that if fanny was pregnant, her parents and bother would have a hard time keeping silent about it. And if there was any hint of a dirty affair, all would have left the lds church. But what we see is the parents being happy about the sealing. And fanny, to my knowledge never said a bad word about Joseph Smith. And so, something does not add up if the critics are correct about fanny and joseph.

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Hmmm, well, do we have any idea who Ms. Alger's children were?

I think that we have very little about fanny after she married. It would be interesting to read about her life and just how she succeeded. She seems however, to be happy with her large family. And certainly her husband did not have any problems with fanny's past since he married her.

If the relationship between fanny and joseph was a nasty dirty affair, her husband did not seem to mind her past. Which would be quite strange for that time frame.

She bore many children but who they are and what happened to them and if they said anything about mormonism is not known to me.

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You mean Eliza Jane. Ann Eliza was the yet-unborn daughter. But I'm afraid I fail to see the distinction between Fanny staying in the home of Eliza Jane or the home of Chauncey Webb, since, as man and wife, they lived together.

Thanks for the clarification.

(BTW, Fanny was by all accounts a very attractive young woman, and she was a teenager. I'm not sure how many attractive non-pregnant teens look pregnant to you, but the number for me is pretty low.)

I worked in an alternative school in America for two years. There we had a teenage student who repeatedly fell pregnant every three months or so. She would come in to class one day and announce the pregnancy. Over time, she would start to show. Then she would miscarry. The first time this happened, I assumed she really was pregnant. Then one of the veteran teachers took me aside and explained how the girl was actually stuffing padding into her tops in order to appear in the early stages of pregnancy. This was her way of getting attention, apparently. Weird! Anyway, my point is not to suggest that anything even remotely similar happened with Fanny Alger, but yes, I have seen at least one non-pregnant teen who looked pregnant to me and who even told me she was pregnant. She even told people who the father was. And had morning sickness. Maybe one reason I prefer actual babies as evidence.

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Am I the only moron who thought the title of this thread referred to what it must have been like to go on a date with Fanny Alger?

T-Shirt

My first thought on seeing the thread title was that DB had discovered historical evidence that Joseph Smith bought her dinner first.

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I worked in an alternative school in America for two years. There we had a teenage student who repeatedly fell pregnant every three months or so. She would come in to class one day and announce the pregnancy. Over time, she would start to show. Then she would miscarry. The first time this happened, I assumed she really was pregnant. Then one of the veteran teachers took me aside and explained how the girl was actually stuffing padding into her tops in order to appear in the early stages of pregnancy. This was her way of getting attention, apparently. Weird! Anyway, my point is not to suggest that anything even remotely similar happened with Fanny Alger, but yes, I have seen at least one non-pregnant teen who looked pregnant to me and who even told me she was pregnant. She even told people who the father was. And had morning sickness. Maybe one reason I prefer actual babies as evidence.

Everyone prefers babies as evidence, HT.

But we deal, in this world, with probabilities. Sure it's possible that when Fanny Alger was kicked out of the Smith home for her intimacy with Joseph she just happened to look pregnant while actually not being so, that during the several weeks she spent in the Webb home she happened to look appropriately further along in her pregnancy, and that the Webbs never heard from their boarder or those who brought her to them that she actually was pregnant. And I suppose that if this convoluted scenario seems more probable to you than Fanny just having been pregnant, then you should believe that she was not pregnant.

Don

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Was there ever any DNA tests done on the descendants of the child? I don't recall reading about it; the ones I have read about have all proved that Joseph Smith was not the father.
Ah, I'll need to address that in the paper. Perhaps after the presentation I can post about it. (I don't want to steal my own thunder, a phrase which for some reason now reminds me of Percy Jackson.) I have evidence on what happened there.

I'm beginning to suspect that no evidence whatsoever for Alger leaving the Smith home pregnant will ever be forthcomming from this source or any other.

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I just want to put a different spin on this. The DNA test proves that the alleged descendant of Orrison Smith was not descended from Joseph Smith. It doesn't prove that Orrison Smith was not fathered by Joseph Smith. I think it's good supporting evidence but it assumes that every generation of wife in between was faithful--very possible, even probable, but not an ironclad case IMO. Don--I won't swear by this but I seem to remember pulling some later census records that showed Orrison as a grown man living with Fanny and listed as her son. I think his name was spelled "Orson". Nothing as a child though. I'll check my records when I get back home next week.

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I am actually interested in the other definition of "dating" in the title... is there much, if any, evidence that Joseph Smith romantically loved his wives other than Emma? Or were they all loveless marriages?

Also, where did he get all of the money to support all those wives? I assume that he did support them (I wouldn't dare accuse the prophet of being a deadbeat)... except maybe for the ones that already had support through their other husbands.

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Okay...I will ask. Who are the DNA provable offspring of Joseph Smith to women other than Emma?

They lack substantial existence.

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What I think is very interesting is the fact that God would think to be so very important that Joseph mix up with girls at all. There is no satisfying answer out there. Is this something the world needs? We this bring greater peace to the world?

No.

What silly nonsense. And here we are all these years later avtually trying to attribute God to it.

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What silly nonsense. And here we are all these years later avtually trying to attribute God to it.

And here we see your unreasonable, chronocentric aversion to plural marriage.

God did command plural marriage. Get over it, one way or the other. Your hobby horse is limping badly and the abysmal sounds he makes as you whip him along are beginning to grate on all within earshot.

Lehi

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There is no satisfying answer out there that satisfies my militant, Victorian, holier-than-thou dogmatism.

There. Fixed it for you.
Is this something the world needs?
No- the world has plenty of militant, Victorian, holier-than-thou dogmatism without you parading yours here.
We this bring greater peace to the world? No.
Will it detract from peace in the world? If so, how? In point of fact- why is it ANY of your business?

All of the principles involved entered in voluntarily- so who are YOU to proclaim it unwholesome?

What silly nonsense. And here we are all these years later avtually trying to attribute God to it.
Actually- God took credit for it at the git-go. It's only pious mudslingers and gossips such as yourself who insist that God WASN'T involved.

But of course, you in your metrosexual, neo-castrati domesticity know FAR more about it than any of the men and women who actually lived it, right?

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What I think is very interesting is the fact that God would think to be so very important that Joseph mix up with girls at all.

What do you mean by "mix up", and give us a specific. documented example where JS did this. I have no idea what you are talking about.

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It doesn't matter what mix up means. It could mean carnal intercourse or simply a spiritual sealing. Either way, I'm asking why would God care to have Joseph do this?

There is an answer.

I hope that, lacking an answer, you do not attempt to create your own.

HiJolly

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