Is wealth a sin?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I was recently in a discussion about this very topic. I thought that it had some merit and wanted to open this up to more of a debate. What are your thoughts.

And if having a big house is a sin and having a lot of money is a sin at what point does it become a sin to have a big house? What too much money and what is to big of a house?

3

2

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Debate!!

The title to this thread is supposed to be big not bog. Thanks for your consideration.

[thesometimesaint]

Mola Ram Suda Ram:

Having money is not a sin, any more than not having money is a sin. It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. 1 Timothy 6:10

[cinepro]

Does the Lord care more about the modesty of our clothes, or their cost?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I love the responces. I mean that. Keep them comming.

TSS I agree. You hit that nail on the head for me.

Cinepro, I would say taht that is an interesting question.

[thesometimesaint]

cinepro:

High quality clothes are not cheap. But I have seen cheap clothes that are expensive.

[LDSToronto]

King David's house was bigger than the temple, by at least two times, and look what happened to him. So, in my estimation, big houses say something about those who reside within.

H.

[paulpatter]

I was recently in a discussion about this very topic. I thought that it had some merit and wanted to open this up to more of a debate. What are your thoughts.

And if having a big house is a sin and having a lot of money is a sin at what point does it become a sin to have a big house? What too much money and what is to big of a house?

3

2

1

Debate!!

The title to this thread is supposed to be big not bog. Thanks for your consideration.

I think the answer depends on two factors: 1) How was the wealth acquired? and 2) How is it being used?

Re. 1): Some people are obsessed with becoming wealthy, and when they achieve that goal it is typically (certainly not always) at the expense of family relationships, compromises with integrity, and cutting corners spiritually. People who acquire wealth in that way have, IMO, sinned. Other people acquire wealth by inheriting it, or making an exceptionally rewarding investment, or--more often than not--simply by extremely hard, honest work over many years. Obviously, they have not sinned.

Re. 2): Some people who are wealthy use it to help others. Yes, they live comfortably, but they don't have the biggest house or fanciest car in town. Others publicize their wealth and use it to serve almost exclusively themselves. They believe, apparently, that wealth is a measure of their value as human beings; they are, IMO, sinners.

[Droopy]

The ice on which this thread topic resides is rice paper thin.

Hat tip to Mola for even bringing it into the forum.

[Droopy]

King David's house was bigger than the temple, by at least two times, and look what happened to him. So, in my estimation, big houses say something about those who reside within.

H.

This is perhaps the most egregious example of the fallacy of hasty generalization I've ever seen.

[mercyngrace]

Elder William R. Bradford

The Master taught that the obtaining of temporal wealth does not produce or equate to righteousness. His doctrine was that the accumulation of wealth is often an enemy to righteousness. In His teachings on this matter, He cautions that great spiritual danger awaits when we own a lot of money or things.

Said He to His disciples in the Sermon on the Mount,

[hordak]

Does the Lord care more about the modesty of our clothes, or their cost?

Trick question eh.

7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

Neither.

[mercyngrace]

President Spencer W. Kimball:

The possession of riches does not necessarily constitute sin. But sin may arise in the acquisition and use of wealth.

[LDSToronto]

This is perhaps the most egregious example of the fallacy of hasty generalization I've ever seen.

Call the Egregious Police, or maybe the Hasty Police, I dunno. Whoever answers first, I guess.

Besides, the scriptures taught it, not me. At least this is what I learned in Sunday School - Solomon (sorry, it wasn't David), was super-awesome-righteous, and asked the Lord for a wise heart, and the Lord gave him that, and also gave him the numbers for Friday's LottoMax, 'cause shortly after Solomon became super rich. And Mr. Super-Rich-Ultra-Wise-Doubly-Righteous builds a house twice as big as the temple, which apparently shows that, deep down, subconsciously, below the id, Solomon was displaying a future tendency to let riches corrupt him. The message - anyone who is wealthy and spends more wealth on himself than on the kingdom is in deep poo-poo.

Hey, I can't invent this stuff, and since the OT is true, this must be true, too, right? I mean, list all the super rich people in the scriptures that didn't let wealth corrupt them, and then tell me wealth is great.

Of course, I'd kill to be wealthy.

H.

[LDSToronto]

This is perhaps the most egregious example of the fallacy of hasty generalization I've ever seen.

Oh ya, one more thing - you caught me for hyperbole, but didn't catch the obvious 'it was Solomon, not David, H, you moron!'.

Just sayin'

H.

[Nathair/|\]

Jacob 2

17 Think of your ^abrethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your ^bsubstance, that ^cthey may be rich like unto you. 18 But ^abefore ye seek for ^briches, seek ye for the ^ckingdom of God. 19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent todo good

[cinepro]

Trick question eh.

Neither.

Well, I wonder if these verses mean anything, or if they mean to exclude the justified buying of costly apparel for work, or because you have so much money it's really an inconsequential portion of your expenditures, or if you do a lot of service and are really humble but just like to wear Manolos.

1 Nephi 13

[7] And I also saw gold, and silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine-twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots.

2 Nephi 28

[13] They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.

Jacob 2

[13] And the hand of providence hath smiled upon you most pleasingly, that you have obtained many riches; and because some of you have obtained more abundantly than that of your brethren ye are lifted up in the pride of your hearts, and wear stiff necks and high heads because of the costliness of your apparel, and persecute your brethren because ye suppose that ye are better than they.

Alma 1

[6] And he began to be lifted up in the pride of his heart, and to wear very costly apparel, yea, and even began to establish a church after the manner of his preaching.

[32] For those who did not belong to their church did indulge themselves in sorceries, and in idolatry or idleness, and in babblings, and in envyings and strife; wearing costly apparel; being lifted up in the pride of their own eyes; persecuting, lying, thieving, robbing, committing whoredoms, and murdering, and all manner of wickedness; nevertheless, the law was put in force upon all those who did transgress it, inasmuch as it was possible.

Alma 4

[6] And it came to pass in the eighth year of the reign of the judges, that the people of the church began to wax proud, because of their exceeding riches, and their fine silks, and their fine-twined linen, and because of their many flocks and herds, and their gold and their silver, and all manner of precious things, which they had obtained by their industry; and in all these things were they lifted up in the pride of their eyes, for they began to wear very costly apparel.

Helaman 13

[27] But behold, if a man shall come among you and shall say: Do this, and there is no iniquity; do that and ye shall not suffer; yea, he will say: Walk after the pride of your own hearts; yea, walk after the pride of your eyes, and do whatsoever your heart desireth -- and if a man shall come among you and say this, ye will receive him, and say that he is a prophet.

[28] Yea, ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance; ye will give unto him of your gold, and of your silver, and ye will clothe him with costly apparel; and because he speaketh flattering words unto you, and he saith that all is well, then ye will not find fault with him.

4 Nephi

[24] And now, in this two hundred and first year there began to be among them those who were lifted up in pride, such as the wearing of costly apparel, and all manner of fine pearls, and of the fine things of the world.

Mormon 8 (speaking of our day)

[36] And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

[37] For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

[LeSellers]

Mr. Super-Rich-Ultra-Wise-Doubly-Righteous builds a house twice as big as the temple, which apparently shows that, deep down, subconsciously, below the id, Solomon was displaying a future tendency to let riches corrupt him.

It was not his riches that corrupted him, it was his foreign wives, most notably, the daughter of pharaoh. He was warned of them, and he still made politically motivated marriages with them.

They led to his downfall, at a relatively early age. So he lost the "long life", and his son lost the kingdom, too.

Lehi

[Droopy]

Call the Egregious Police, or maybe the Hasty Police, I dunno. Whoever answers first, I guess.

Besides, the scriptures taught it, not me. At least this is what I learned in Sunday School - Solomon (sorry, it wasn't David), was super-awesome-righteous, and asked the Lord for a wise heart, and the Lord gave him that, and also gave him the numbers for Friday's LottoMax, 'cause shortly after Solomon became super rich. And Mr. Super-Rich-Ultra-Wise-Doubly-Righteous builds a house twice as big as the temple, which apparently shows that, deep down, subconsciously, below the id, Solomon was displaying a future tendency to let riches corrupt him. The message - anyone who is wealthy and spends more wealth on himself than on the kingdom is in deep poo-poo.

Which means that virtually every Latter Day Saint in North American (and most other places), regardless of worthiness in all other respects, is under condemnation.

What you have just claimed is that, when I get my paycheck each week, if I spend more on myself and my family than on "the Kingdom", I am a damned soul walking.

Hey, I can't invent this stuff, and since the OT is true, this must be true, too, right? I mean, list all the super rich people in the scriptures that didn't let wealth corrupt them, and then tell me wealth is great.

Neither Abraham, Moses or Job seemed to have too much trouble with it, and neither did Lehi.

[elguanteloko]

It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. 1 Timothy 6:10

I am not sure love for money is the root for most rapes.

[mercyngrace]

It was not his riches that corrupted him, it was his foreign wives, most notably, the daughter of pharaoh. He was warned of them, and he still made politically motivated marriages with them.

They led to his downfall, at a relatively early age. So he lost the "long life", and his son lost the kingdom, too.

Lehi

I just taught this lesson in GD and the manual explicitly links Solomon's wealth to his downfall.

Quotes:

[Nathair/|\]

I am not sure money is the root for most rapes.

You will have to take that up with Paul when you see him. Let me know how it goes.

Yours under the serpentine oaks,

Nathair /|\

[mercyngrace]

I am not sure money is the root for most rapes.

Perhaps the love of money creates a society in which certain pathologies thrive.

If 200 years of Nephite history and the account of the city of Enoch are any example, the inverse seems to be true.

[elguanteloko]

You will have to take that up with Paul when you see him. Let me know how it goes.

What?!?

[LDSToronto]

Which means that virtually every Latter Day Saint in North American (and most other places), regardless of worthiness in all other respects, is under condemnation.

What you have just claimed is that, when I get my paycheck each week, if I spend more on myself and my family than on "the Kingdom", I am a damned soul walking.

I don't make that claim, the scriptures do. Poor --> humble ---> rich ---> Act like prideful jerks ---> cursing ----> Poor

Seems like every story involving money leads to people acting like prideful jerks. Keep what you need to stay afloat and fed, and give the rest to others that need it. Seems like the safest means to staying on the right path.

Neither Abraham, Moses or Job seemed to have too much trouble with it, and neither did Lehi.

My point exactly, only four people, in all of scripturedom, in contrast to entire civilizations that couldn't keep it together when they kept their money.

H.

[Droopy]

I am not sure love for money is the root for most rapes.

Or for the homosexual marriage movement.

Or of convenience abortion on demand.