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Why not atheism?


Mudcat

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Thought I would take a different tack on this. Atheism is a difficult term to grasp, IMO. I mean, you have agnostics, strong atheists, weak atheists and so on. Apparently, there are a wide variety of people who don't believe in God for various reasons.

For the moment, let's assume that embracing "atheism" means that a person thinks that the evidence for God existing isn't as persuasive as the evidence that there isn't a God.

Though this post is primarily directed at LDS, I would ask any theist, as well as atheist...

What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

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For me, one of the most powerful 'evidences' is music. The way it can seemingly speak to ones 'soul' in such profound ways. That's just one. I'll post more later.

I think you are right that atheism is difficult to understand, which is why I started a thread about it and some questions I had last week.

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...What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

I cannot believe that we could exist by a series of accidents.

Our bodies, eyes, hands, abilities, and on and on are a witness that we did not come about by accident. And that is just the beginning. Look at all life forms, and the earth and its cycles, etc.

Self consciousness, and all its powers such as memory and emotion and much more is something that no one has even an idea how to duplicate outside of natural reproduction. How could someone claim it came about by "natural selection" without a specific understanding of what really brings it about? Being an atheist requires more blind faith that I am willing to buy into.

Self-consciousness in a being is a clear witness that that being is something more than just a body.

No matter how atheists try to deny that their beliefs require we came about by a series of accidents, it is simply self-evident that IS the only way we could exist without a Creator.

Richard

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...

What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive...

Existence itself.

And beyond that, the infinite complexity and beauty

of the cosmos -- from galactic clusters down to the

shapes of tiny snowflakes.

But then again, I do not claim God to be an object that

exists in time and space in the same way that an apple

upon a tabletop "exists."

I'm perfectly comfortable with atheists, so long

as they will admit the possibility of beings vastly

superior to themselves. It is atheists who seem to

think that they are the very pinnacle of evolution

which get me irritated.

UD

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Thought I would take a different tack on this. Atheism is a difficult term to grasp, IMO. I mean, you have agnostics, strong atheists, weak atheists and so on. Apparently, there are a wide variety of people who don't believe in God for various reasons.

For the moment, let's assume that embracing "atheism" means that a person thinks that the evidence for God existing isn't as persuasive as the evidence that there isn't a God.

I can't accept this definition.

Though this post is primarily directed at LDS, I would ask any theist, as well as atheist...

What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

None... but I am not an atheist. I think most people would agree that the evidence that God does not exists is much greater than that which supports His existence (if they can name any) and that does not make them 'atheists'. I guess I am an Agnostic LDS.

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I believe simply because I want to. (Faith is the hope for things which are true, but unseen.)

"evidence" can go both ways. Depending on the type of person someone is, they will understand and gravitate toward some facts rather than others. I guess if someone took the time to explain to me a scientific non-layman levels how God could not exist, they could so do. How long would that take?

Some atheists say that we are wasting our time. (perhaps some of us are) following the idea of God. Well, how much time in my life would I waste trying to absolutely know if there isn't one?

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What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

Which version of God are we talking about?

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What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

I do not know if it is considered subjective or not, but the first time I looked up at the night sky I knew that there must be a God. In fact I have never doubted that He exists. I am somewhat like Alma was when he said:
(Alma 30:44) "... all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator."
I realize not everyone feels this way, but that is how I feel and think about it.
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What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

I would say that no human experience is or can possibly be objective--knowledge is simply not injected into our brains. And try as we might to observe and analyze with the many helpful "non-human" tools, processes and systems at our disposal, we cannot shake our innate subjectivity. Even seeing God face to face is ultimately a subjective experience, because we are not objects in His view.

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It is impossible to imagine non-existence. It is also impossible conceive of oneself not existing. This is not to say that, simply because it is impossible for the human brain to comprehend, that it doesn't exist. It is to illustrate that our comprehensions and ideas about the universe are probably mere quarks compared to what we are not able, and never will be able to comprehend.

Only human arrogance, in my opinion, allows for the atheist viewpoint that there is no God, and therefore no supernatural, and therefore nothing that can't someday be understood completely by humans.

I do not believe, as Protagoras did, that "man is the measure of all things."

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I can see the appeal of Agnosticism as there are many many things I just don't know. But Atheism seems to me to deny that there is many many things they don't know either.

So you are ready to admit that there MAY be any of 1000 different gods that are currently worshiped? Or are you denying that these gods exist and that it is only YOUR god that is real?

I disbelieve in Elohim/Yahweh every bit as much as I disbelieve in Shiva, Ganesha, Xenu, Zeus, Odin, Jupiter, etc.

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Scottie:

1 Corinthian 8:5-6

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

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Thanks for all the input so far. I am going to try to put a response to my own question together this evening.

Wanted to followup on a couple of short responses.

I can't accept this definition.

I admit its overly broad and to general. What definition would you proffer in its place, Elguanteloko?

Which version of God are we talking about?

I was thinking about the new 9.6 Beta, however the thread is backward compatible to version 1.7.

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What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

As others have said, I think the beauty and complexity of life is the best evidence that a God exists.

yosemite_national_park.jpg

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I was thinking about the new 9.6 Beta, however the thread is backward compatible to version 1.7.

What are the features of those versions of God? It helps to know what we're talking about before listing evidence for or against its existence.

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There are, of course, other evidences (both weak and strong):

Near Death Experiences have been documented to occur while patients are brain-dead / blind.

Supernatural investigators, or "ghost hunters" sometimes have compelling evidence, and mysterious things happen to them.

We have accounts of perfectly sane people having visions / being visited by angels or ghosts, etc.

Edit: I guess a lot of people aren't as interested in atheism.

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Theists are atheists about all gods except their god.

I do not find this often used atheist argument persuasive.

I honestly believe others had understandings and experiences that convince them there is a God. If they decide Thor is that God, I still believe their basic faith in God is real, just not their specific understanding of exactly the true nature of God. So I would not say I am an atheist of Thor.

Something created the universe. Like the proverbial blind men examining an elephant, there are many understandings of God that are different. But that does not mean God does not exist.

In my faith it was not a creation out of nothing, and God does not have power to make up powers-- and I find that much more believable than the philosophical God with magical blank check powers that creates out of nothing.

But I would never say to a believer in the Trinity God that his God "does not exist". I would say his understanding of God has errors in it.

Richard

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Thanks for the responses so far, everybody.

In my OP, I asked two questions.

1.Why not atheism?

2.What evidence, aside from subjective experience, do you find compelling and persuasive that God exists?

There have been a number of answers to question 2, most, if not all I agree with.

I wanted to respond to the first question. Why not atheism?

If the atheist is right and the existence of God can be ruled out because there seems to be no evidence for God. Then what is the actual situation of man, in the absence of such a being

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