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Does God Appreciate Baptism in Other Churches


jimbob

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Moroni 8 basically states that those who engage in infant baptism are engaged in an evil abomination and that they have no faith, no charity, no hope and will go to hell if they die having believed in the need for infant baptism.

I personally believe that God appreciates others' efforts to follow the Savior's example, including those who engage in infant baptism in an effort to follow that example. To be clear, for purposes of this post I am not saying that he recognizes the authority to baptize, but that he is pleased with efforts to follow the Savior's example--even efforts that, at one time, may have been called a "solemn mockery" by a BoM prophet.

Does God appreciate efforts by those of other faiths to follow Christ, even if such efforts include a belief that an infant needs to be washed clean? Or are such believers without charity, without faith and without hope and destined for hell?

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Moroni 8 basically states that those who engage in infant baptism are engaged in an evil abomination and that they have no faith, no charity, no hope and will go to hell if they die having believed in the need for infant baptism.

I personally believe that God appreciates others' efforts to follow the Savior's example, including those who engage in infant baptism in an effort to follow that example. To be clear, for purposes of this post I am not saying that he recognizes the authority to baptize, but that he is pleased with efforts to follow the Savior's example--even efforts that, at one time, may have been called a "solemn mockery" by a BoM prophet.

Does God appreciate efforts by those of other faiths to follow Christ, even if such efforts include a belief that an infant needs to be washed clean? Or are such believers without charity, without faith and without hope and destined for hell?

It's not all-or-nothing: God smiles upon the "efforts by those of other faiths to follow Christ," but not all those efforts nor the spirit which drives all efforts and all beliefs to lead his children astray (some of these are an abomination). But He is always extending His loving invitation to respond to the Light of Christ, find the truth, and repent.

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I think God appreciates all efforts to follow Him that are inspired by Him. As for baptisms done by other than His authority, He has said this:

(D&C 22:2-4) "Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works. For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old. Wherefore, enter ye in at the gate, as I have commanded, and seek not to counsel your God. Amen."
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So tell it to me straight. Does God look down on a Catholic baptism of an infant in anger? If so, is attending such a baptism to support a friend or family member participating in the mocking of God and supporting that which is an evil abomination in his eyes?

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Thief, robber, abomination, nice... So BC, it would be wrong to attend such a baptism, as doing so would be supporting a mockery, an abomination, a thief, a robber?

Having a Catholic Cardinal speak at BYU was having a high leader in a church of thieving, robbery and abomination address BYU...wow...seems like this would be an abomination itself, no?

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Thief, robber, abomination, nice... So BC, it would be wrong to attend such a baptism, as doing so would be supporting a mockery, an abomination, a thief, a robber?

Being nice and merciful are only a couple of many aspects of Christ-like behavior. However, I simply gave verses that apply to the situation given. Christ is speaking in all of them. Do you not believe him?

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sometimessaint,

Is it just getting wet or is it trying to follow the example of the Savior? Is there a difference? Does it matter?

BC,

I do not believe that those who engage in infant baptism today are thieves, robbers or abominations. Rather, I believe God appreciates the efforts of those who seek to follow the Savior's example. If this is apostasy, go ahead and call it as much...you are a straight shooter...go ahead, call it what it is. Anyone who believes what I just wrote is apostate, right BC?

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So tell it to me straight. Does God look down on a Catholic baptism of an infant in anger? If so, is attending such a baptism to support a friend or family member participating in the mocking of God and supporting that which is an evil abomination in his eyes?

Does God look down on a Catholic baptism of an infant in anger? Answer: Yes, but He directs His anger over this point toward those responsible for the perverted doctrine, and toward those who go along with it by refusing the Light of Christ.

If so, is attending such a baptism to support a friend or family member participating in the mocking of God and supporting that which is an evil abomination in his eyes? Answer: That depends on how you view your friend or family member, how they promote the event to you, how you receive the Light of Christ on the point of child baptism, and whether the subject is a bone of contention between them and you.

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It's actions and creeds that were described as abominations, not individuals.

I believe Mormon was addressing a particular people and possibly even a particular mindset among those people.

I believe God appreciates any sincere attempt to follow Christ's example, but not that he will accept an attempted ordinance based on its sincerity alone.

Infant baptisms should be condemned when those who are engaging in them are not sincere, or are refusing to accept the truth.

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If so, is attending such a baptism to support a friend or family member participating in the mocking of God and supporting that which is an evil abomination in his eyes? Answer: That depends on how you view your friend or family member, how they promote the event to you, how you receive the Light of Christ on the point of child baptism, and whether the subject is a bone of contention between them and you.

By all means, CV, please elaborate and explain just what circumstances would result in such attendance NOT being participating in a mockery and those in which attendance WOULD be participating in a mockery.

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It's actions and creeds that were described as abominations, not individuals.

I believe Mormon was addressing a particular people and possibly even a particular mindset among those people.

I believe God appreciates any sincere attempt to follow Christ's example, but not that he will accept an attempted ordinance based on its sincerity alone.

Infant baptisms should be condemned when those who are engaging in them are not sincere, or are refusing to accept the truth.

Jason, I mostly agree, but what do you mean by "refusing to accept the truth"?

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Jason, I mostly agree, but what do you mean by "refusing to accept the truth"?

I mean someone who is actively rejecting the concept of why infant baptism is unnecessary after having it explained to them - as the Nephites did.

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"Does God appreciate efforts by those of other faiths to follow Christ, even if such efforts include a belief that an infant needs to be washed clean?"

Yes.

"Or are such believers without charity, without faith and without hope and destined for hell?"

No.

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Here are my questions on this subject:

1. What is the difference between baptizing an infant and baptizing an 8-yr old child? Is the child really making an informed, important decision? Would you consider an 8-yr old a "little child"?

2. How exactly does a Mormon "priesthood line" give someone authority from God to baptize?

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I mean someone who is actively rejecting the concept of why infant baptism is unnecessary after having it explained to them - as the Nephites did.

Maybe that is where we differ, Jason. I think even someone who has had it explained to her and does not immediately concede the truthfulness of that explanation and therefore proceeds to seek to follow the example of Christ as she understands it by baptizing an infant pleases God insomuch as she is exercising faith to the degree of her present understanding. I simply do not believe God looks down in anger on that occasion or for me to attend the baptism of her infant is particpating in a mocking of God.

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Here are my questions on this subject:

2. How exactly does a Mormon "priesthood line" give someone authority from God to baptize?

Its not the "priesthood line" that gives authority its bearing the priesthood in itself that gives authority.

The line of authority is just that a history of an individuals priesthood pedigree to the Lord.

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Maybe that is where we differ, Jason. I think even someone who has had it explained to her and does not immediately concede the truthfulness of that explanation and therefore proceeds to seek to follow the example of Christ as she understands it by baptizing an infant pleases God insomuch as she is exercising faith to the degree of her present understanding. I simply do not believe God looks down in anger on that occasion or for me to attend the baptism of her infant is particpating in a mocking of God.

By "explained to them" I mean sufficiently that their understanding effectively has been changed. If they understand that the atonement of Christ has absolved Original Sin but persist in baptizing infants anyway then they are indeed mocking God.

If I were invited to attend an infant baptism I would likely attend.

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1. What is the difference between baptizing an infant and baptizing an 8-yr old child? Is the child really making an informed, important decision? Would you consider an 8-yr old a "little child"?

An 8-year old is sufficiently informed to make the correct decision, and they will benefit greatly from receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. An infant cannot make an informed decision and does not need the Holy Ghost.
2. How exactly does a Mormon "priesthood line" give someone authority from God to baptize?
I am at one end of my line. Who is at the other?
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By all means, CV, please elaborate and explain just what circumstances would result in such attendance NOT being participating in a mockery and those in which attendance WOULD be participating in a mockery.

As it says in Mosiah 4:29, "I cannot tell you all the things [or circumstances] whereby ye may commit sin [by attending a baptism]; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them." But I can discern for myself, when opportunities arise, which baptismal events to avoid and which to attend, and how to behave at those which I attend.

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Does God appreciate efforts by those of other faiths to follow Christ, even if such efforts include a belief that an infant needs to be washed clean? Or are such believers without charity, without faith and without hope and destined for hell?

Hey ya jimbob,

From my evil, no charity, no hope, going to hell perspective (LOL!), I would suggest that the efforts to follow Christ (even as we all continue to fall short) is WAY more important than what faith label we choose to paste on our mortal chest.

Peace,

Ceeboo

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