Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Is polygamy required in heaven?


doughboy

Recommended Posts

The key is that if you are going to the CK what you want will be in line with what the Lord wants for you. One heart and one mind.

To me, lack of struggle means lack of progression. But I guess it really is useless to debate what happens in the CK because it will be what it is and we have no control over the overall infrastructure and laws put in place by God in heaven.

To say we will never be asked to do something we are not comfortable with makes no sense in the Mormon view of heaven because it is taught that we will continue to progress and learn knowledge. Don't we have to go through a few refiners fires to become like God? That is what we are taught here on earth. Why would heaven be any different? Because heaven is governed by different laws we don't understand? They are beyond human understanding? Could very well be. In fact, God could also be beyond human understanding. We may not be capable of understanding his nature except for a very limited reflection of ourselves. Now we can sympathize with the Trinity believers... Something we can't come to understand in our human brains. Before we dismiss the idea of the Trinity, we need to prove that we understand the LDS version of heaven, progression, and God. Since we can't do that, why do we dismiss the idea of Jesus being the very God of heaven walking on the face of the earth?

Link to comment

Don't we have to go through a few refiners fires to become like God? That is what we are taught here on earth. Why would heaven be any different?

Exactly, that is what mortality is for. Saying we become one with God doesn't mean we get there easily, or without throwing a few fits. But I think by the time we get to that point where we are resurrected we will have been through the refiners fire and find our desires very much in line with what God asks of us. Those who don't get there will have their reward according to their desires.

Link to comment

Exactly, that is what mortality is for. Saying we become one with God doesn't mean we get there easily, or without throwing a few fits. But I think by the time we get to that point where we are resurrected we will have been through the refiners fire and find our desires very much in line with what God asks of us. Those who don't get there will have their reward according to their desires.

Yeah but doesn't a person have to do a bunch more progressing after death to become like God? Let's say 1,000 points is like God and you live a worthy life and go through a couple refiner's fires and get to say, 35 points. You still have to do a bunch more even though you might be CK material.

Or do I have this wrong?

Link to comment

Yeah but doesn't a person have to do a bunch more progressing after death to become like God?

I'm not sure what you have in mind. There is only so much we can do and then the Atonement comes into play. Basically whatever spirit and direction we have in this life we take with us, which is why it's so important to make correct choices in this mortal life. True that many who never had an opportunity to hear the gospel here will have the opportunity in the Spirit World; but for those who did have the opportunity they will have to continue their schooling until every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to God.

Link to comment

I'm not sure what you have in mind. There is only so much we can do and then the Atonement comes into play. Basically whatever spirit and direction we have in this life we take with us, which is why it's so important to make correct choices in this mortal life. True that many who never had an opportunity to hear the gospel here will have the opportunity in the Spirit World; but for those who did have the opportunity they will have to continue their schooling until every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to God.

What I have in mind? I feel that the doctrine of the afterlife set forth by Joseph Smith is very problematic. Knowing that I can become a God hereafter takes the emphasis out of doing well now, IMO. No matter what kind of good I do today (i.e. wear garments and pay money to the church and read the Book of mormon and testify of Joseph Smith etc.), I know I will still fall very short of being a God. So short, in fact, that I realize there is much for me to do hereafter to make up the difference. Or does the atonement of Christ make up the difference between a faithful member of the church and being a God? Do you become a God instantly upon passing the judgment of God (assuming you pass to the CK level?), or do you have to work hard for eons first?

Why would someone say we would not have to do anything we don't want to do in the CK? That is like saying all will be well forever. There will be no conflict, no struggle, no learning, no opposing force in the CK. That would mean you progress to Godhood upon entering the CK? There is no more progression after that?

This does not make sense to me anymore.

Link to comment

Or does the atonement of Christ make up the difference between a faithful member of the church and being a God?

The simple answer is yes.

Do you become a God instantly upon passing the judgment of God (assuming you pass to the CK level?), or do you have to work hard for eons first?

I'm not sure what all is involved; certainly we will continue to progress. However resurrection comes in stages. Not everyone is resurrected at once. The beginning of the first resurrection took place at Christ's resurrection, and has been on-going. There is a time between death and resurrection and how much time likely depends on individual circumstances. Certainly the more righteousness one obtains in this life would shorten that time.

Link to comment

Yeah but doesn't a person have to do a bunch more progressing after death to become like God? Let's say 1,000 points is like God and you live a worthy life and go through a couple refiner's fires and get to say, 35 points. You still have to do a bunch more even though you might be CK material.

Or do I have this wrong?

You have it wrong. If you will accept the atonement Jesus Christ has the other 965 points.

Link to comment

Why would someone say we would not have to do anything we don't want to do in the CK?

I'm not sure unless they were speaking with the understanding that by that time we will be of one heart and mind with the Lord and therefore will want what he wants. Moses 7:18 "And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them."

Let me give a simple example. I once received a calling in church that I wasn't happy about, mainly because I didn't want to leave the one I was in. My Bishop being very understanding and in tune with the Spirit told me to go home and pray about it. I did and within two days I called him and told him of my excitement because I knew that this is what I should do and all these thoughts and ideas were going through my head on how to best fill this calling. I served in that capacity for three years and it was the best calling I've ever had. I became one with the Lord and wanted what he wanted for me, and because he knew better than I did how much I would need to have that particular calling at that particular time, which I only realized in retrospect.

Link to comment

You have it wrong. If you will accept the atonement Jesus Christ has the other 965 points.

You mean the atonement of Christ instantly sends us to Godhood? (assuming we made it to the CK).

I recall that in D&C 132, it is said that Abraham was already a God, so I guess people might actually believe that full ascension is pretty fast indeed.

I never realized this before. I always considered the path to Godhood would be a very long and difficult journey even after this life. So is this doctrine? That Christ takes us to Godhood without any additional work by us (assuming we pass the threshold of the gate to the CK?)

Link to comment

I'm not sure unless they were speaking with the understanding that by that time we will be of one heart and mind with the Lord and therefore will want what he wants. Moses 7:18 "And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them."

Let me give a simple example...

Thank you for that example. I respect that.

Now, someone on this thread responded to the OP that we don't need to worry about polygamy in the CK because we won't have to do anything we don't feel comfortable doing. But your experience sounds just like what Lucy Walker and Helen Kimball experienced. So it could very well be that polygamy is practiced in the CK even though some people may not like it.

Link to comment

My understanding is that here (or rather, prior to the Resurrection) is the time to have our character, charity, and loyalty refined and tried. After the Resurrection and that which comes with it through the Atonement, the majority of additional training would be more of a skill-set rather than of refinement of essential nature.

The Atonement accounts for all that which is impossible for us to do on our own, given the circumstances in which we are placed. I have a feeling that during our life here on earth, as we strive to live righteously, the Holy Spirit is working behind the scenes with our Spirit, sanctifying us in ways we are not necessarily currently mortally conscious of. Cleaning out nooks and crannies, so to speak.

Link to comment

You mean the atonement of Christ instantly sends us to Godhood? (assuming we made it to the CK).

I recall that in D&C 132, it is said that Abraham was already a God, so I guess people might actually believe that full ascension is pretty fast indeed.

I never realized this before. I always considered the path to Godhood would be a very long and difficult journey even after this life. So is this doctrine? That Christ takes us to Godhood without any additional work by us (assuming we pass the threshold of the gate to the CK?)

Just because you get the assignment doesn't mean you have the skills to complete it. You achieve Godhood according to the type of person you are and Christs contribution. I imagine there may be a long apprenticeship to learn the technical skills.

Link to comment

You mean the atonement of Christ instantly sends us to Godhood? (assuming we made it to the CK).

I recall that in D&C 132, it is said that Abraham was already a God, so I guess people might actually believe that full ascension is pretty fast indeed.

I never realized this before. I always considered the path to Godhood would be a very long and difficult journey even after this life. So is this doctrine? That Christ takes us to Godhood without any additional work by us (assuming we pass the threshold of the gate to the CK?)

In some sense, we are already God with God understood to be a reference to particular kind of being, which we already are by nature, as the children of God. Like begats like, and all that.

The confusion comes in because we often use the same word, "God", to refer to a particular person, such as our Father in heaven, as well as to other persons, such as Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, but the word can also be applied to us, and even to Satan, because all of us, including Satan, are the children of... see here?... which God do you think I am referring to?

Thus, the term Godhood also doesn't clearly identify what we are talking about, because that term can also be used to refer to a particular stage in our supposed progression when we will become as perfect as our Father in heaven while it can also be used to refer to ANY stage at whcih point we could consider ourselves to be God, or God-like, referring to becoming like our Father in heaven.

So, to get back to your question, Jesus Christ doesn't need to do anything to help us become God, because when we were created by our Father in heaven, as his children, we were then the same kind of being as our Father in heavne, by nature, even though we were not as perfect as him. We do need Jesus Christ to become as perfect as our Father in heaven, however, and the way he does that is through the power of his atonement and his intercession for us as our Mediator between us and our Father in heaven.

Link to comment

Just because you get the assignment doesn't mean you have the skills to complete it. You achieve Godhood according to the type of person you are and Christs contribution. I imagine there may be a long apprenticeship to learn the technical skills.

This is BS folks. Does anyone realize what a big deal it is to be God? God doesn't just have some extra technical skills. he is not like Zeus in the Clash of the Titans.... or maybe he is? What did Joseph Smith think about the nature of God when he said we could become Gods ourselves... simply by tacking on a few more technical skills like creating mountains and the human genome.

Where is the awe and wonder of God?

Link to comment

This is BS folks. Does anyone realize what a big deal it is to be God? God doesn't just have some extra technical skills. he is not like Zeus in the Clash of the Titans.... or maybe he is? What did Joseph Smith think about the nature of God when he said we could become Gods ourselves... simply by tacking on a few more technical skills like creating mountains and the human genome.

Where is the awe and wonder of God?

I don't think you give the power of the infinite atonement enough credit.

Link to comment

Tad Callister had some good quotes on this subject in his book The Infinite Atonement in the chapter called "The Blessings of Exaltation".

On another occasion, President Taylor stated: "As a man through the powers of his body he could attain to the dignity and completeness of manhood, but could go no further; as a man he is born, as a man he lives, and as a man he dies; but through the essence and power of the Godhead, which is in him, which descended to him as the gift of God from his heavenly Father, he is capable of rising from the contracted limits of manhood to the dignity of a God, and thus through the atonement of Jesus Christ and the adoption he is capable of eternal exaltation, eternal lives and eternal progression. But this transition from his manhood to the Godhead can alone be made through a power which is superior to man
Link to comment

This is BS folks. Does anyone realize what a big deal it is to be God? God doesn't just have some extra technical skills. he is not like Zeus in the Clash of the Titans.... or maybe he is? What did Joseph Smith think about the nature of God when he said we could become Gods ourselves... simply by tacking on a few more technical skills like creating mountains and the human genome.

Where is the awe and wonder of God?

That he has progressed so much farther than I think, right now, that I will ever be able to. That he is willing to share this with me is so awesome that it is beyond my ability to describe. That he is willing to teach me to be like him is even more awesome.

Look at the universe, our earth, our solar system, the galaxies with their tremendous energies and power. Do you think that all that happens without science. God is the ultimate scientist. Even the most learned of the sciences, in any field, are but infants to him. Do you not think that once you have been called that you will have to learn all that or do you think he is going to plug you in somewhere and just fill your skull with all that knowledge?

Link to comment

But that is not my argument.

Okay. My apologies. I'll try to address your point now.

I was debating whether it is true that we can just do whatever we want once we are already in the CK.

My point was that whatever we do will be what we want to do, otherwise we wouldn't do it, whether we were here or in the Celestial kingdom.

In other words, my argument is that no person can do anything without wanting to do it, even if they murmur while doing it, because doing anything requires the will to do it, and our will is controlled by our wants, even when we also want to do something else at the same time.

My question is, once you are there, are you done progressing?

Here is where you may need to clarify what you are referring to as "progressing".

Progressing to what point? If we're in the CK, we don't need to do anything to progress to that point, because we would already be there. That doesn't necessarily mean we would be exactly like our Father in heaven in every particular, though, because we may not have some things that our Father in heaven has, even though we are told that heirs of Celestial glory will receive ALL that our Father has. Just when that happens, though, I can't tell.

Do you rest forever?

Again, here is where you may need to clarify what you are referring to as "rest".

Rest from what? Rest from the troubles in this world caused by people who don't play nice, not being interested in sharing all that is available on this Earth with all of their other brothers and sisters, without being too selfish or greedy? Yes, we'll be away from people like that when we are there, but does that mean we won't need to do any kind of work at all to be able to enjoy what there is to enjoy with our Father in the Celestial kingdom? I don't think so, but I do believe we will have a certain form of rest that will endure forever.

Will you ever be asked to do something that is difficult?

Again, difficult by what standards, or in what sense?

Something that is difficult for one person to do can be very easy for another person to do, depending on their talents and abilities and all that they have to work with.

Someone said "you don't have to do anything you don't want to do in the CK." If it is true that you are to eternally progress, would you not have to continue being tried and stretched? If that is true, I would contend that yes, you may very likely have to do something you don't want to do in the CK.

Again, my point, in response to your point, is that whatever we do will be whatever we want to do, otherwise we wouldn't do it, whether we were here or in the Celestial kingdom, and I think all we will want to do is what our Father in heaven wants us to do.

Link to comment

So it could very well be that polygamy is practiced in the CK even though some people may not like it.

We know there will be some polygamy simply because people have practiced it here and been sealed to multiple wives. Even now if a man's wife dies he can be sealed to another woman in mortality and have both of them in the CK. But like anything else it depends on individuals. As has already been pointed out, we simply will not have the same jealousies, envyings and selfishness we do here and will have such a greater perspective that it simply will not be an issue. I think what God has in store for us is so much greater than what we can imagine for ourselves that we just need to put ourselves in his hands.

Link to comment

What did Joseph Smith think about the nature of God when he said we could become Gods ourselves... simply by tacking on a few more technical skills like creating mountains and the human genome.

Where is the awe and wonder of God?

Wow if that is your understanding then no wonder you became disaffected with the church. I can't imagine a greater achievement in this life than seeing my children attain their own success and fulfilling their greatest potential. So imagine how great an achievement and joy it is for God to see his children doing the same. Nothing can be more challenging nor more awesome and wonderful than a God whose greatest joy is to bring his spirit children to the point where they can dwell with him and become as he is.

Link to comment

As has already been pointed out, we simply will not have the same jealousies, envyings and selfishness we do here and will have such a greater perspective that it simply will not be an issue.

How do we know there will be no jealousies? Will there be no passion either? Heavenly beings are less capable than terrestrial beings. What is love between a husband and wife if there is no conflict and at times human errors or jealousies? No jealousy in a marriage relationship at all? No potential for jealousy? Have you thought this through to consider what that marriage might be like?

Link to comment

Wow if that is your understanding then no wonder you became disaffected with the church.

You are surprised that I thought it would take eons to progress to Godhood? I'm surprised people are telling me we can very quickly become Gods then fill in the gaps with some technical skills.

Link to comment

How do we know there will be no jealousies? Will there be no passion either? Heavenly beings are less capable than terrestrial beings. What is love between a husband and wife if there is no conflict and at times human errors or jealousies? No jealousy in a marriage relationship at all? No potential for jealousy? Have you thought this through to consider what that marriage might be like?

You fail to understand that Celestial beings are only in the Celestial Kingdom in the first place because they have learned to leave behind mortal flaws like jealousy and human errors. We will only do things we want because we have purified and controled our wants to the point that they are strictly righteous desires, with no evil intent in them any longer.

Celestial beings are just as capable of doing evil as terrestrial beings, but are wise enough to not desire evil in the slightest.

Link to comment

Have you thought this through to consider what that marriage might be like?

Well you don't appear to think much about it. Do you really think that petty jealousies will exist in the presence of God? Our lives will be so expansive who will have time to worry about such things.

And, yes, I have thought a great deal about this and I think that our perspective on marriage is so narrow that we will be astonished at what great opportunities await us. I have said before that my image of a celestial couple is that of Celeborn and Galadriel in LOTR, both equal in stature and power.

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...