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NDE's


Nofear

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It is essentially indisputable that near death experiences (NDE's) occur. The question is whether or not these experiences are

A. reflective of reality that is external to the individual, or

B. a purely mental event.

While I personally believe that the testimonial evidence is rather suggestive many nde's are reflective of an external reality, I am also somewhat biased by a strong conviction of life after mortality. If we suppose this position then what can be learned? And that leads my scenario question:

Many who have an near death experience describe themselves with a body that looks like and is similar to their physical body. Inasmuch as they notice themselves (which very few testimonies actually do) they are clothed and so from the very get go of death. The question is where did that clothing come from?

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It is essentially indisputable that near death experiences (NDE's) occur. The question is whether or not these experiences are

A. reflective of reality that is external to the individual, or

B. a purely mental event.

While I personally believe that the testimonial evidence is rather suggestive many nde's are reflective of an external reality, I am also somewhat biased by a strong conviction of life after mortality. If we suppose this position then what can be learned? And that leads my scenario question:

Many who have an near death experience describe themselves with a body that looks like and is similar to their physical body. Inasmuch as they notice themselves (which very few testimonies actually do) they are clothed and so from the very get go of death. The question is where did that clothing come from?

It actually raises the question of why the only record we have of "unclothed" people would be the pre-fall Adam and Eve.

If even spirits and resurrected beings wear clothes, why wouldn't Adam and Eve also wear clothes in their pre-Fall Terrestrial state?

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Many who have an near death experience describe themselves with a body that looks like and is similar to their physical body. Inasmuch as they notice themselves (which very few testimonies actually do) they are clothed and so from the very get go of death. The question is where did that clothing come from?

Do spirit bodies not have spirit clothing?

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It actually raises the question of why the only record we have of "unclothed" people would be the pre-fall Adam and Eve.

If even spirits and resurrected beings wear clothes, why wouldn't Adam and Eve also wear clothes in their pre-Fall Terrestrial state?

Because to give them clothing made of skins would have required killing some animals, and this wasn't possible before the Fall?

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Do spirit bodies not have spirit clothing?

Sure. At least one account describes the manufacture of spiritual clothing.

The question is how did that spiritual clothing come to inhabit the body of an NDE'er? When we come from pre-mortality to inhabit our body are we clothed? And then decades later, our spirit body is wearing the same clothing? Not a bad idea. Unfortunately, many NDE's describe the individuals as wearing clothing which resembles the clothing like that which they were wearing when they "died" (e.g. soldiers, fire fighters, etc.). Again most don't notice or recount their clothing. Probably if they were naked upon death they would notice more often -- at least such is my hypothesis.

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Sure. At least one account describes the manufacture of spiritual clothing.

The question is how did that spiritual clothing come to inhabit the body of an NDE'er? When we come from pre-mortality to inhabit our body are we clothed? And then decades later, our spirit body is wearing the same clothing? Not a bad idea. Unfortunately, many NDE's describe the individuals as wearing clothing which resembles the clothing like that which they were wearing when they "died" (e.g. soldiers, fire fighters, etc.). Again most don't notice or recount their clothing. Probably if they were naked upon death they would notice more often -- at least such is my hypothesis.

As in life, perhaps our perspective in death is a mix of internal and external realities. Perhaps the memory of the NDE is altered so that the "remembered" perception of wearing a certain kind of clothing remains. Perhaps the clothing we wear in the spirit is what we want it to be or imagine it to be.

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As in life, perhaps our perspective in death is a mix of internal and external realities. Perhaps the memory of the NDE is altered so that the "remembered" perception of wearing a certain kind of clothing remains. Perhaps the clothing we wear in the spirit is what we want it to be or imagine it to be.

Perhaps that is the easiest answer. But, saying that the newly dead are all little emperor's in new clothing might not have the same aesthetic appeal to some. If we grant that clothing is a mental fabrication then it also opens the door for essentially anything else being a mental fabrication.

Lest people think I'm just being ornery in this question, I have thought about it and came up with a few options:

1. When newly dead, we are indeed put into a "box" to provide a gentle introduction to the post-mortal reality. Things are not necessarily as they seem.

2. We wear clothing when we come to inhabit our mortal shell and it is the same clothing when we die. However, we need not suppose that the clothing is "low tech" or simple. Perhaps it is a kind of clothing that will respond and shape itself according to our mental whims. For the newly dead, it is plausible the default would be what we were wearing on death.

3. All matter has a "ghosting" of spirit matter in it. When the spirit body leaves the physical body it kind of "catches" the spirit matter that is dormant in the physical clothing on our physical body and hence we appear clothed as we were in our physical body upon death.

Each option has it's pro's and con's. I'm curious if others see a different and viable option.

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Sure. At least one account describes the manufacture of spiritual clothing.

The question is how did that spiritual clothing come to inhabit the body of an NDE'er? When we come from pre-mortality to inhabit our body are we clothed? And then decades later, our spirit body is wearing the same clothing? Not a bad idea. Unfortunately, many NDE's describe the individuals as wearing clothing which resembles the clothing like that which they were wearing when they "died" (e.g. soldiers, fire fighters, etc.). Again most don't notice or recount their clothing. Probably if they were naked upon death they would notice more often -- at least such is my hypothesis.

I've read a number of NDE's. In some, the clothing is mentioned and the person said that they appeared in the clothing to make it easier for the loved one to recognize them or to symbolize something--such as soldiers appearing. Another one I read, the person who was experiencing the NDE was surprised by the way the dead person was dressed--in the spirit world, people read eachother's thoughts, so his friend explained to him that he was able to dress how he chose and this was what he was comfortable wearing.

Oftentimes, a person will be dressed in regular clothing from their time period, others are dressed in simple white clothing. These examples all involved the dress of the dead. But one NDE I read mentioned the clothing of the person who had died--he was wearing a hospital gown and when attacked by demons during his NDE, his clothing was torn from him and he was naked.

Since the experiences and the clothing are not all the same, it seems there is variation, depending on circumstances and the people involved. I suspect that our spirits appear clothed because we are most comfortable clothed--and since even spirit is matter, the physical clothing we wear in this world has a spiritual matter to it as well.

Just my thoughts.

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I've read a number of NDE's. In some, the clothing is mentioned and the person said that they appeared in the clothing to make it easier for the loved one to recognize them or to symbolize something--such as soldiers appearing. Another one I read, the person who was experiencing the NDE was surprised by the way the dead person was dressed--in the spirit world, people read eachother's thoughts, so his friend explained to him that he was able to dress how he chose and this was what he was comfortable wearing.

There is no mystery at all to me for those that have been dead for some time. They can change clothes just as we do. It is the newly dead that are at question -- they won't have time to change their raiment.

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There is no mystery at all to me for those that have been dead for some time. They can change clothes just as we do. It is the newly dead that are at question -- they won't have time to change their raiment.

Maybe they are "born" into the new realm just as naked as an infant is born into this one, and with attendants receiving them and clothing them in the garments of the spirit world. Nobody thinks twice about it. Maybe those remembering their NDE haven't gotten that far, and their minds so distracted by other things that they fill in the gaps with, among other things, their own interpretation of how they were clothed.

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It actually raises the question of why the only record we have of "unclothed" people would be the pre-fall Adam and Eve.

And I wonder if the fact that they are described as naked is more a description of their innocence and the provision of clothing symbolic of the loss of innocence. Just as a new born baby comes naked in the world and then learns to wear appropriate clothing.

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It's called modesty and consideration for others. Can anyone here really picture themselves butt naked prancing around for eternity in front of each other?

Yes I'm sure every woman in the eternity will enjoy looking at my privates! (face palm)

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It actually raises the question of why the only record we have of "unclothed" people would be the pre-fall Adam and Eve.

If even spirits and resurrected beings wear clothes, why wouldn't Adam and Eve also wear clothes in their pre-Fall Terrestrial state?

I once sat in the office of the Bountiful Temple President. We were discussing part of the endowment. At one point he paused and looked at me for a few seconds, he sighed, then asked "When are you going to learn that the language of the Temple is that of symbolism?" He then stood up and shook my hand, then gestured to the door. LOL. I was dismissed. Classic! He was a great man.

What I learned: This has absolutely nothing to do with clothed or "unclothed" people; at least as far as Adam and Eve are concerned. I can't say anything about anyone's NDE. If we can wear clothes in the afterlife I would like Salvatore Ferragamo to design my quasi-futuristic space robe (see Endowment video for details.)

Big UP!

Lamanite

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It's called modesty and consideration for others. Can anyone here really picture themselves butt naked prancing around for eternity in front of each other?

Yes I'm sure every woman in the eternity will enjoy looking at my privates! (face palm)

My narcissism tell me otherwise... :P

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My narcissism tell me otherwise... wub.gif

There is a good reason why they call me "Ka Nui Kahuna"(The Big Priest) by locals. They watch in amazement as my big gut stays in balance with the board while surfing. Not because every young wahine wants my sexy body.

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Maybe they are "born" into the new realm just as naked as an infant is born into this one, and with attendants receiving them and clothing them in the garments of the spirit world. Nobody thinks twice about it. Maybe those remembering their NDE haven't gotten that far, and their minds so distracted by other things that they fill in the gaps with, among other things, their own interpretation of how they were clothed.

I can't really fault this, "we're all naked when we die, we just don't notice it" interpretation. But, I suspect at least some NDE'ers would have noticed. While I am far from well or even adequately read on the subject (the subject is mired in a pit of fakery and charlatanry and so I can't stand to spend much time with it) I haven't come across any account of embodied nakedness.

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I agree that NDE's are real. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the experience of people from different cultures/religions reflect their respective culture/religion. That would not be indicative of an external reality.

This is an interesting point that I've puzzled over, too.

If you look at it from the standpoint that there has been, for several thousand years, a steady stream of people flowing over to the other side, carrying their cultures and religious beliefs with them, and assuming that the transition to the next life doesn't necessarily mean that we automatically shed everything we are here, I would think that there would be a cultural influence that carries over to the other side to some extent. As people we do, after all, influence our environments, and this part of mortality certainly influences how we are on the other side.

In my opinion, people carry their perspectives over to the other side, and at least for a time, that perspective colors what they experience. Those who come back do so with that colored perspective intact, so I don't think it such influence precludes the fact of an external reality in NDEs.

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I have to go along with jwhitlock. Like those waking from a deep coma/amnesia and finding how much has changed such as wife deceased children gone etc... can be traumatizing if inundated at first. I'm sure much is a transitional phase. There are many who report in their NDE's seeing God /Jesus not just relatives in the Christian perspective. Why Hf or Christ. maybe it's neither but the HG? If it's a Mormon heaven like we believe it's going to be traumatizing to many Ev's and Athiests. Think of poor Richard Dawkins. I would almost pay anything to see that face when he finds out.

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I agree that NDE's are real. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the experience of people from different cultures/religions reflect their respective culture/religion. That would not be indicative of an external reality.

I think it reflects the fact that death does not change the prospective that we have inherited in mortality. A Buddahist sees a being of light and sees Buddah, while a Christian sees Christ. The external reality is the being of light, only that the each individual interprets it according to their expectation and culture.

This is exactly what I would expect based on what the Lord has revealed that we do not lose our individuality at death. An evil person remains evil, and the righteous remains clean. We are who we are, even at death.

As someone remarked on this forum, giving his perspective in advance == >>"Life after death does not prove that there is a God." He will see a being of light and think it is an illusion, just the brain giving off false signals.

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Unfortunately, many NDE's describe the individuals as wearing clothing which resembles the clothing like that which they were wearing when they "died" (e.g. soldiers, fire fighters, etc.).

Again, this makes sense. If I die, the Lord wants me to transition as smoothly as possible. Especially an individual who gave little thought to death, one may see himself in familiar clothing. Otherwise, it would add to the emotional shock, initially at least, to find myself suddenly in a toga if I died as a firefighter. The Lord is sensitive to our psychological needs.

Going into the spirit world can be a very traumatic event for some individuals.

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I had an NDE. I wasn't aware of what I was wearing, but I could see me down on the gurney in the hospital, I could see fire and police vehicles out the window of the room I was in. I was straped down on the gurney, I couldn't have seen out the window if I was still in my body. I didn't see any beings, I just remember thinking I really messed up.

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I think it reflects the fact that death does not change the prospective that we have inherited in mortality. A Buddahist sees a being of light and sees Buddah, while a Christian sees Christ. The external reality is the being of light, only that the each individual interprets it according to their expectation and culture.

This is exactly what I would expect based on what the Lord has revealed that we do not lose our individuality at death. An evil person remains evil, and the righteous remains clean. We are who we are, even at death.

As someone remarked on this forum, giving his perspective in advance == >>"Life after death does not prove that there is a God." He will see a being of light and think it is an illusion, just the brain giving off false signals.

Intersting. Even somone with schizophrenia who becomes a serial killer?

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It is essentially indisputable that near death experiences (NDE's) occur. The question is whether or not these experiences are

A. reflective of reality that is external to the individual, or

B. a purely mental event.

While I personally believe that the testimonial evidence is rather suggestive many nde's are reflective of an external reality, I am also somewhat biased by a strong conviction of life after mortality. If we suppose this position then what can be learned? And that leads my scenario question:

Many who have an near death experience describe themselves with a body that looks like and is similar to their physical body. Inasmuch as they notice themselves (which very few testimonies actually do) they are clothed and so from the very get go of death. The question is where did that clothing come from?

I know this sounds a little strrrraaaannngggeee, but... I remember reading in one of those NDE books about someone who recorded that he (or she) saw these ancient looking looms that were weaving some type of cloth that seemed to literally be made out of light. I don't know if I believe that or not, but the description was interesting. One thing key thing that scientists have never been able to duplicate or explain about the NDE is when the spirit actually leaves the vicinity of their body and travels to another location and is able to report back what was being said or happening in an area that they couldn't possibly have seen or heard from where their body was.

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