New Book (2010) on Freemasonry DESTROYS Anti-Masonic Claims

[e=mc2]

Reading a new and very impressive book by Arturo De Hoyos, R. Brent Morris, "Is it True What They Say About Freemasonry?", M. Evans, 2010 (269 pp). This book is stellar research, and devastating refutations of the insipidly inane anti-Masonic arguments, innuendos, and deliberate lying. A very POWERFUL contribution for ALL Masons to read, learn from, and see the *real* truths about Masonry. I am almost half way through it, and already have learned so very much, which I will be reviewing in detail. The authors are to be congratulated for destroying the stupidity of anti-Masonry.

Many topics such as the fraud of Leo Taxil saying Albert Pike taught upper degrees of Masonry teach the worship of Satan, that Masons do not regard the Bible as important, that Masonry is simply pagan, Masonry as anti-religious, etc. I will bring out the many details in this stunning tour de force of very strong, very logical, and stellar research decimating the anti-Masons, once I complete my reading of it. Simply a MUST OWN, and MUST READ book. I will write up a serious review of this here once I finish it.

The astonishing parallels with anti-Mormonism and Anti-Masonry is something else I am going to write about. Even down to the exact same authors who are both anti Mormon,/Mason, and the exact same strategies, and types of lies. De Hoyos and Morris destroy the anti-Masons. The deliberately stupid ones like Decker, Scnoebelen (sp?, yeah, I really don't care that much whether I get it right or not), etc., are absolutely wiped out by these two *real* Masons, not the fake ones the anti-Masons stupidly invent. This book reminds me very much of the book by Stephen D. Ricks, Daniel C. Peterson, "Offenders for a Word," where they explore the exact same stupidity masquerading as scholarship among anti-Mormons. In many instances, the same anti-Masons are also Anti-Mormons, and it appears all they do is re-write their manuscripts chaing the word Mormon, for "Mason," and vice versa. This book is an excellent guide through some of the intricacies of Freemasonry, and shows the pitfalls the anti-Masons fall into. It also exposes the shameless lies of anti-Masons.

[Calm]

The astonishing parallels with anti-Mormonism and Anti-Masonry is something else I am going to write about. Even down to the exact same authors who are both anti Mormon,/Mason, and the exact same strategies, and types of lies.

Why would they change something they think works for them? Between that and their looking at the world a certain way, they probably would do the same kind of thing for any group that they attack even if it was the local association of accountants (I don't see much creativity in methodology among this type of anti-mormons, the creativity seems to be all used up in coming up with claims).

On a more positive note, how about some info on the background of the authors and what led them to write the text?

[Uncle Dale]

...

the stupidity of anti-Masonry.

...

So, in 1824, who was the one true Grand Master of the New York Grand Lodge?

Joseph Enos? That would make the proper leader of the Canandiagua lodge,

Nicholas G. Cheesborough, right?

These guys should have been retained in their civil and lodge offices? If so,

the entire history of early 19th century western New York needs re-writing.

UD

[bjw]

So, in 1824, who was the one true Grand Master of the New York Grand Lodge?

Joseph Enos? That would make the proper leader of the Canandiagua lodge,

Nicholas G. Cheesborough, right?

These guys should have been retained in their civil and lodge offices? If so,

the entire history of early 19th century western New York needs re-writing.

UD

Ya, I heard this argument before against the Book of Mormon, that the names Enos and Giddings were top Masonic officials in New York and inspired some names in the BoM. Anyone care to comment on this?

[Nosferatu]

Reading a new and very impressive book by Arturo De Hoyos, R. Brent Morris, "Is it True What They Say About Freemasonry?", M. Evans, 2010 (269 pp). This book is stellar research, and devastating refutations of the insipidly inane anti-Masonic arguments, innuendos, and deliberate lying. A very POWERFUL contribution for ALL Masons to read, learn from, and see the *real* truths about Masonry. I am almost half way through it, and already have learned so very much, which I will be reviewing in detail. The authors are to be congratulated for destroying the stupidity of anti-Masonry.

Many topics such as the fraud of Leo Taxil saying Albert Pike taught upper degrees of Masonry teach the worship of Satan, that Masons do not regard the Bible as important, that Masonry is simply pagan, Masonry as anti-religious, etc. I will bring out the many details in this stunning tour de force of very strong, very logical, and stellar research decimating the anti-Masons, once I complete my reading of it. Simply a MUST OWN, and MUST READ book. I will write up a serious review of this here once I finish it.

The astonishing parallels with anti-Mormonism and Anti-Masonry is something else I am going to write about. Even down to the exact same authors who are both anti Mormon,/Mason, and the exact same strategies, and types of lies. De Hoyos and Morris destroy the anti-Masons. The deliberately stupid ones like Decker, Scnoebelen (sp?, yeah, I really don't care that much whether I get it right or not), etc., are absolutely wiped out by these two *real* Masons, not the fake ones the anti-Masons stupidly invent. This book reminds me very much of the book by Stephen D. Ricks, Daniel C. Peterson, "Offenders for a Word," where they explore the exact same stupidity masquerading as scholarship among anti-Mormons. In many instances, the same anti-Masons are also Anti-Mormons, and it appears all they do is re-write their manuscripts chaing the word Mormon, for "Mason," and vice versa. This book is an excellent guide through some of the intricacies of Freemasonry, and shows the pitfalls the anti-Masons fall into. It also exposes the shameless lies of anti-Masons.

You do realize that there are quite a few similarities between Masonic ceremonies and their LDS counterparts, right?

I was under the impression that until 1990 the Endowment ceremony was 90% identical to the Masonic Endowment ceremony . . .

[Uncle Dale]

Ya, I heard this argument before...

Not an argument about any of the Standard Works, but rather an inquiry as to whether

the entire basis for the late 1820s rise of political anti-masonry rested upon the

false assertion that Freemasonry tends to corrupt political office-holders who are

members of "the Craft."

The 1823 splintering of Freemasoney in New York State arguably set the stage

for William Morgan's abduction and all that followed in it wake. The phenomenon

of 1820s political anti-masonry also created the necessary stimulus, whereby

Grand Master DeWitt Clinton was able to heal the rift between the "city lodge"

and the "country lodge," in New York State, and thus rescue the remnants of

Freemasonry from oblivion there.

Does this new book prove that there was no 1820s corruption in political offices,

due to the secret associations and inter-connections of high-ranking Masons? If so,

then that would be an important revelation.

UD

.

[Obiwan]

You do realize that there are quite a few similarities between Masonic ceremonies and their LDS counterparts, right?

Yes.... So?

I was under the impression that until 1990 the Endowment ceremony was 90% identical to the Masonic Endowment ceremony . . .

Not even close.... Even without the changes (which there was little of by the way), there was always a small percentage that was similar to Masonry, maybe 20% at the most.

Let me ask you something.... When you look at various religions in the world, when you look at the words they use, their symbols, their practices, etc. etc., are you trying to tell us that ALL of those things just appeared "out of know-where", that various things didn't not come from "somewhere else"???

Why is there nothing "sinister" about everything else about the Church that "comes from somewhere else", be it the sacrament, praying, churches, etc. etc.?

So, please tell us why there is something so wrong about Joseph simply using some symbols, imagery, and behaviors of just another of many groups he was a part of or encountered???

[e=mc2]

Why would they change something they think works for them? Between that and their looking at the world a certain way, they probably would do the same kind of thing for any group that they attack even if it was the local association of accountants (I don't see much creativity in methodology among this type of anti-mormons, the creativity seems to be all used up in coming up with claims).

On a more positive note, how about some info on the background of the authors and what led them to write the text?

Arturo de Hoyos is the Grand Historian and Archivist for the Supreme Council 33rd degree Southern Jusrisdiction. He is America's leading authority on the Scottish Rite's early history and rituals and most other Masonic organizations. He has authored, co-authoroed and translated over 20 books and many articles on Freemasonry, and is a board member of the Scottish Rite Research Society. In other words, he is almost a good source to quote - GRIN!

S. Brent Morris is the managing editor of the "Scottish Rite Journal" of the Supreme Council 33rd degree Southern Jurisdiction. And he is the only U.S. Past Master of Quatuor Coronati Lodge No. 2076 of London, the premiere organization for Masonic research. Author/editor of 9 books on Freemasonry, and a board member of the Scottish Rite Research Society. The Founding Editor of "Heredom: the Journal of the Scottish Rite." In other words, he too, is almost worth reading - LOL!

[e=mc2]

Not an argument about any of the Standard Works, but rather an inquiry as to whether

the entire basis for the late 1820s rise of political anti-masonry rested upon the

false assertion that Freemasonry tends to corrupt political office-holders who are

members of "the Craft."

The 1823 splintering of Freemasoney in New York State arguably set the stage

for William Morgan's abduction and all that followed in it wake. The phenomenon

of 1820s political anti-masonry also created the necessary stimulus, whereby

Grand Master DeWitt Clinton was able to heal the rift between the "city lodge"

and the "country lodge," in New York State, and thus rescue the remnants of

Freemasonry from oblivion there.

Does this new book prove that there was no 1820s corruption in political offices,

due to the secret associations and inter-connections of high-ranking Masons? If so,

then that would be an important revelation.

UD

.

Hi unk! I have slowly been educating myself on this area of Freemasonry.......Right now the ritual and symbolisms of Masonry have me utterly mesmerized, so I have been focusing on them. I join the Scottish Rite in two weeks. Maybe when things settle down, I can start learning more about the Morgan affair. I know the Ars Quatuor Coronatorum have some stellar research in that area. I shall have to look it all up though. Thanks for asking!

[kamenraider]

Is the new edition pretty much the same as this older edition? LINK.

[bjw]

Hi unk! I have slowly been educating myself on this area of Freemasonry.......Right now the ritual and symbolisms of Masonry have me utterly mesmerized, so I have been focusing on them. I join the Scottish Rite in two weeks. Maybe when things settle down, I can start learning more about the Morgan affair. I know the Ars Quatuor Coronatorum have some stellar research in that area. I shall have to look it all up though. Thanks for asking!

You will find a lot more similarities with Mormonism in degrees 4 to 32. Make sure you take the Master Craftsman class and Guthrie College of the Consistory after you do the 32nd degree, you will gain much knowledge about all of this. Much more than just doing the degrees.

As for the author mentioned in the OP, I like De Hoyos, especially the SR Ritual Monitor, but I disagree with some of his historical views on masonry. I believe masonry goes back much farther than some of the current historians believe. Even if masonry itself isn't that old, the groups that preceded it go back to ancient times, and I feel that masonry carries on these traditions.

As for the similarities between masonry and Mormonism, I like to look at the Initiatory and Endowment as taking the essential parts of all the degrees and putting them into one ceremony. I think that's why you notice a few similarities in each degree.

I haven't gone through the York rite degrees yet but I'm planning to this Fall, but I'm sure there will be more similarities that I'll notice there as well. So far I've just been through 1 to 3 of the blue degrees and 4 to 32 of the Scottish Rite.

[wenglund]

Reading a new and very impressive book by Arturo De Hoyos, R. Brent Morris, "Is it True What They Say About Freemasonry?", M. Evans, 2010 (269 pp). This book is stellar research, and devastating refutations of the insipidly inane anti-Masonic arguments, innuendos, and deliberate lying. A very POWERFUL contribution for ALL Masons to read, learn from, and see the *real* truths about Masonry. I am almost half way through it, and already have learned so very much, which I will be reviewing in detail. The authors are to be congratulated for destroying the stupidity of anti-Masonry.

Many topics such as the fraud of Leo Taxil saying Albert Pike taught upper degrees of Masonry teach the worship of Satan, that Masons do not regard the Bible as important, that Masonry is simply pagan, Masonry as anti-religious, etc. I will bring out the many details in this stunning tour de force of very strong, very logical, and stellar research decimating the anti-Masons, once I complete my reading of it. Simply a MUST OWN, and MUST READ book. I will write up a serious review of this here once I finish it.

The astonishing parallels with anti-Mormonism and Anti-Masonry is something else I am going to write about. Even down to the exact same authors who are both anti Mormon,/Mason, and the exact same strategies, and types of lies. De Hoyos and Morris destroy the anti-Masons. The deliberately stupid ones like Decker, Scnoebelen (sp?, yeah, I really don't care that much whether I get it right or not), etc., are absolutely wiped out by these two *real* Masons, not the fake ones the anti-Masons stupidly invent. This book reminds me very much of the book by Stephen D. Ricks, Daniel C. Peterson, "Offenders for a Word," where they explore the exact same stupidity masquerading as scholarship among anti-Mormons. In many instances, the same anti-Masons are also Anti-Mormons, and it appears all they do is re-write their manuscripts chaing the word Mormon, for "Mason," and vice versa. This book is an excellent guide through some of the intricacies of Freemasonry, and shows the pitfalls the anti-Masons fall into. It also exposes the shameless lies of anti-Masons.

Perhaps it is time to undload this onto your buddy Ed Decker, who doubles as an anti-Mormon and an anti-Mason.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[e=mc2]

Perhaps it is time to undload this onto your buddy Ed Decker, who doubles as an anti-Mormon and an anti-Mason.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

It'd be over his head though Wade......he can't seem to fathom anything that goes against his already made up mind. I daresn't confuse him with the facts....LOL!

[e=mc2]

You will find a lot more similarities with Mormonism in degrees 4 to 32. Make sure you take the Master Craftsman class and Guthrie College of the Consistory after you do the 32nd degree, you will gain much knowledge about all of this. Much more than just doing the degrees.

As for the author mentioned in the OP, I like De Hoyos, especially the SR Ritual Monitor, but I disagree with some of his historical views on masonry. I believe masonry goes back much farther than some of the current historians believe. Even if masonry itself isn't that old, the groups that preceded it go back to ancient times, and I feel that masonry carries on these traditions.

As for the similarities between masonry and Mormonism, I like to look at the Initiatory and Endowment as taking the essential parts of all the degrees and putting them into one ceremony. I think that's why you notice a few similarities in each degree.

I haven't gone through the York rite degrees yet but I'm planning to this Fall, but I'm sure there will be more similarities that I'll notice there as well. So far I've just been through 1 to 3 of the blue degrees and 4 to 32 of the Scottish Rite.

Ah, interesting! I shall be going through the Scottish Rite here just shortly in a couple weeks....... I don't get to the York Rite til next year.

[cdowis]

You do realize that there are quite a few similarities between Masonic ceremonies and their LDS counterparts, right?

I was under the impression that until 1990 the Endowment ceremony was 90% identical to the Masonic Endowment ceremony . . .

I was "under the impression" that the Masonic ceremonies originated in Solomon's temple rites. Over the centuries they became corrupted as they passed down to the Masons, while the JS restored them to their original state.

May I suggest that the similarities are minor and superficial, while the "ten percent differences" are spiritually significant. One leads to an initiation into a social club or organization, while the other, performed by the power and authority of the priesthood, leads into the presence of Divinity in the next life.

[cinepro]

I was "under the impression" that the Masonic ceremonies originated in Solomon's temple rites. Over the centuries they became corrupted as they passed down to the Masons, while the JS restored them to their original state.

May I suggest that the similarities are minor and superficial, while the "ten percent differences" are spiritually significant. One leads to an initiation into a social club or organization, while the other, performed by the power and authority of the priesthood, leads into the presence of Divinity in the next life.

Based on Brigham Young's description of the endowment...

[volgadon]

...I sometimes wonder how far past the "sentinels" a non-LDS Mason could get.

In all that appalling cynicism you seem to have lost track of the idea of authority.

[kamenraider]

So what sort of new information does the new edition have? I notice that there are more pages, but am wondering what's been added.

[USU78]

Does this new book prove that there was no 1820s corruption in political offices, due to the secret associations and inter-connections of high-ranking Masons?

Those two words are greatly problematic, imnsho. It is a favorite tool of the yellow American press, both in the XIXth Century and, of course, today, to demonize an association for the acts of some few of its members, such that the acts are due to the association. Thus are Mormons bloody avengers. Thus are Masons corrupt bigshots stealing from the proletariat behind closed doors in smoke-filled rooms.

I'm none too impressed by such things.

[Uncle Dale]

Those two words are greatly problematic, imnsho. It is a favorite tool of the yellow American press, both in the XIXth Century and, of course, today, to demonize an association for the acts of some few of its members, such that the acts are due to the association. Thus are Mormons bloody avengers. Thus are Masons corrupt bigshots stealing from the proletariat behind closed doors in smoke-filled rooms.

I'm none too impressed by such things.

Oh come on, Horatio -- even you would have been a bit wary

of Nicholas Cheesboro serving as your Royal Arch Chapter bigwig,

your federal District Attorney, your Episcopal deacon, and your

cub scout den mother, all on the day of the Feast of John the Baptist.

Admit it. Back in 1827 you would have been a flaming anti-Jacksonite.

UD

[USU78]

Oh come on, Horatio -- even you would have been a bit wary of Nicholas Cheesboro serving as your Royal Arch Chapter bigwig, your federal District Attorney, your Episcopal deacon, and your cub scout den mother, all on the day of the Feast of John the Baptist.

No question . . . yet men of affairs were always likely to be active in a lot of areas, including church, lodge, school, and party. Tain't nuthin' unusual that, when a guy that involved falls, he makes a big boom.

Admit it. Back in 1827 you would have been a flaming anti-Jacksonite.

Naw, I'm probably typical of Iroquois Country farmers . . . and, 12 years, later, I'm still wondering whatever happened to my father who took off for the War against the Bloody British and never came back (not knowing that he'd started a 2nd family in North Carolina) . . . but I'm definitely looking no farther than the end of my interest, and I'd've been as likely as JSJr or anybody else to fall for Andy's demogoguery, his anti-Banker and anti-Mason rhetoric.

[Uncle Dale]

...

Andy's demogoguery, his anti-Banker and anti-Mason [sic - pro-Craft] rhetoric.

You need to read up a little more on the Great Hunter from Kentucky.

http://www.contemplator.com/america/hunter.html

Yer Unk

[USU78]

You need to read up a little more on the Great Hunter from Kentucky.

http://www.contemplator.com/america/hunter.html

I'll be crackied! Had no idea Colonel Jackson was a craftsman. Seems so out of character for him . . . but there you go!

USU "That Hunters of Kentucky reminds me of

." 78

[Uncle Dale]

...

no idea

...

It gets complicated -- just in New York there was the Country Lodge vs the City Lodge.

Members taking blood oaths to (potentially) injure or kill fellow "apostate" members.

In addition to the County Lodge / City Lodge civil war in Masonry, there was also

the emergence of members and/or groups advocating the restoration of pristine,

original Masonry -- going back to the split between Seth and Cain.

There was at least a couple of advocates then for "Christianizing" Masonry --

in a Protestant sense: which would have involved excluding Jewish/Deist members.

Among some Presbyterians and Episcopalians (IIRC) there was the notion of combining

Masonry with the Church -- essentially making it subject to the Church.

I have the feeling that some of these side-issues came to a head at Kirtland,

when it became important for the Mormons to obtain political allies with the

Jacksonians -- and Freemasonry membership became a vital link in such efforts as

the hoped-for influencing of legislators in Columbus in chartering a bank.

We all know what happened at Nauvoo. The lodge there became a rogue lodge,

no longer under control of the Craft's bigwigs in Quincy and Springfield. It also

became a "restorationist" lodge, hearkening back to the Seth/Cain split. It also

became (practically speaking) an appendage of the Church (though some will argue

that the linkage was not formal, just as in the case of the Council of Fifty).

Getting back to Jackson -- I do not think many people today comprehend the

doomsday hysteria promoted by the anti-Jacksonians. For them, it was the end of

the world, rushing on at breakneck speed.

Forget 2010's oddities of "birthers" and "pals around with terrorists" talk --

in 1828 it was: "The end of the World is coming and Jackson is the Anti-Christ!"

Though, now that I think about it, some folks today are claiming such stuff also;

but on a smaller scale, with less mass hysteria.

You really ought to take the trouble to locate and read this piece by Herr Vogel:

"Mormonism's 'Anti-Masonick Bible',"

John Whitmer Historical Association Journal 9 (1989)

UD

[soren]

Reading a new and very impressive book by Arturo De Hoyos, R. Brent Morris, "Is it True What They Say About Freemasonry?", M. Evans, 2010 (269 pp). This book is stellar research, and devastating refutations of the insipidly inane anti-Masonic arguments, innuendos, and deliberate lying. A very POWERFUL contribution for ALL Masons to read, learn from, and see the *real* truths about Masonry. I am almost half way through it, and already have learned so very much, which I will be reviewing in detail. The authors are to be congratulated for destroying the stupidity of anti-Masonry.

Many topics such as the fraud of Leo Taxil saying Albert Pike taught upper degrees of Masonry teach the worship of Satan, that Masons do not regard the Bible as important, that Masonry is simply pagan, Masonry as anti-religious, etc. I will bring out the many details in this stunning tour de force of very strong, very logical, and stellar research decimating the anti-Masons, once I complete my reading of it. Simply a MUST OWN, and MUST READ book. I will write up a serious review of this here once I finish it.

The astonishing parallels with anti-Mormonism and Anti-Masonry is something else I am going to write about. Even down to the exact same authors who are both anti Mormon,/Mason, and the exact same strategies, and types of lies. De Hoyos and Morris destroy the anti-Masons. The deliberately stupid ones like Decker, Scnoebelen (sp?, yeah, I really don't care that much whether I get it right or not), etc., are absolutely wiped out by these two *real* Masons, not the fake ones the anti-Masons stupidly invent. This book reminds me very much of the book by Stephen D. Ricks, Daniel C. Peterson, "Offenders for a Word," where they explore the exact same stupidity masquerading as scholarship among anti-Mormons. In many instances, the same anti-Masons are also Anti-Mormons, and it appears all they do is re-write their manuscripts chaing the word Mormon, for "Mason," and vice versa. This book is an excellent guide through some of the intricacies of Freemasonry, and shows the pitfalls the anti-Masons fall into. It also exposes the shameless lies of anti-Masons.

You mention Ed Decker here, and I readily grant that his book is not at all an example of what a responsible, theologically disciplined refutation of Mormonism looks like. Nor do most of the books responded to in Offenders for a Word, especially given the poor state of anti-Mormon literature in general, and in the early 90