Kolob=Sirius?

[Olavarria]

"The text of Abraham 3:1

[Jason]

You can't be serious.

[Olavarria]

You can't be serious.

Ya I am; I could be wrong. Where am I wrong?

[volgadon]

I think I have a problem with the transliteration, as well as it not being called the Dog Star by the ancient Hebrews or Egyptians. For the sake of fairness I should note that they are not insurmountable objections.

[Olavarria]

I think I have a problem with the transliteration, as well as it not being called the Dog Star by the ancient Hebrews or Egyptians. For the sake of fairness I should note that they are not insurmountable objections.

But thats the thing, Abraham wasn't Hebrew or Egyptian He was a Mesopotamian*

The main thrust of my argument is this

1)Kolob and Kalbu Samas(Sirius) might be congnates, the root being klb.

2)Kolob and Sirius are both associated with the sun.

Conclusion

Kolob might be Sirius

*Whether from the north or south, thats a different issue for a different day.

[Jason]

I was also making a pun.

[volgadon]

But thats the thing, Abraham wasn't Hebrew or Egyptian He was a Mesopotamian*

The main thrust of my argument is this

1)Kolob and Kalbu Samas(Sirius) might be congnates, the root being klb.

2)Kolob and Sirius are both associated with the sun.

Conclusion

Kolob might be Sirius

*Whether from the north or south, thats a different issue for a different day.

The question then is around what time did the term dog of the sun appear.

[lostindc]

The question then is around what time did the term dog of the sun appear.

Speaking of Kolob I have been trying to get the kids to name the new kitten Kolob or Zelph. So far I have been anything short of convincing.

[BCSpace]

Ya I am; I could be wrong. Where am I wrong?

There's just one thing missing. In what way is Sirius the greatest of all the Kokaubeam? Surely there is something more concrete than apparent magnitude?

[Joseph Antley]

I think you're looking beyond the mark. I wrote a blog post about Kolob once.

[Nathair/|\]

There's just one thing missing. In what way is Sirius the greatest of all the Kokaubeam? Surely there is something more concrete than apparent magnitude?

It is possible we have to interpret that in light of Moses 1:35

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I ^aknow them.

and Abraham 3 which repeatedly refers to celestial cartography in relation to "the earth upon which thou standest."

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/3

[volgadon]

I think you're looking beyond the mark. I wrote a blog post about Kolob once.

One of your best, IMHO. Works etymologically and conceptually.

[BCSpace]

and Abraham 3 which repeatedly refers to celestial cartography in relation to "the earth upon which thou standest."

A reasonable argument. Perhaps Sirius then, is the gateway star ala Vega in the movie Contact.

[Olavarria]

There's just one thing missing. In what way is Sirius the greatest of all the Kokaubeam? Surely there is something more concrete than apparent magnitude?

"because it is nearest unto me". Thats what the BoA says.

I think you're looking beyond the mark. I wrote a blog post about Kolob once.

I disagree. The names of both these stars seem to have the same root(klb), and both stars are associated with the sun. So, its not a strech to argue that they might be the same star.

K. Barney may explain it better than I do.

Even if I am right, your blog post and my OP are talking about two different,but not incompatible perspectives.

[Nofear]

While Sirius A is a strong candidate from a cultural/linguistic perspective, I discount it as a serious candidate.

The Sirius binary system is estimated at only some 230 million years with Sirius A having a total lifespan of some 1 billion years. This youthfulness makes it problematic since our own star system is older.

[Olavarria]

While Sirius A is a strong candidate from a cultural/linguistic perspective, I discount it as a serious candidate.

The Sirius binary system is estimated at only some 230 million years with Sirius A having a total lifespan of some 1 billion years. This youthfulness makes it problematic since our own star system is older.

That would be the case IF the Book of Abraham was trying to give us a modern/scientific understanding of the cosmos. I don't believe it does. God talks to men "in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding" (D&C 1:24).

[Joseph Antley]

That would be the case IF the Book of Abraham was trying to give us a modern/scientific understanding of the cosmos. I don't believe it does. God talks to men "in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding" (D&C 1:24).

So you're argument isn't that Sirius is nearest place to God, but that Sirius was merely the star associated with Kolob in antiquity?

[Olavarria]

So you're argument isn't that Sirius is nearest place to God, but that Sirius was merely the star associated with Kolob in antiquity?

YES

I believe that Abraham, as an ancient man,would have understood the cosmos as ancient man would(Earth at the center,multipe heavens,God sitting on the highest heaven,maybe a belief in the validity of astrology etc).

I don't believe the BoA is describing a scientific astronomy. Nor do I belive that Abraham was given the "true" astronomical model that we'll discover once NASA can make to the jump to light speed

The astronomical system in BoA was used by Abraham as a very subtle way of showing Pharoah that Re(Sun) isnt the Supreme Being.

[Rincewind]

I seem to recall reading something about Sirius and Klb in Nibley's "One Eternal Round". It's at home, and I'm at work, so I can't look it up right now, but I'll see if I can find it in the morning.

Can't remember precisely what it was that was said...

[USU78]

Why so sirius?

[Olavarria]

I seem to recall reading something about Sirius and Klb in Nibley's "One Eternal Round". It's at home, and I'm at work, so I can't look it up right now, but I'll see if I can find it in the morning.

Can't remember precisely what it was that was said...

I wrote something more detailed on my blog, a more detailed version of the OP.

[Olavarria]

Why so sirius?

[Rincewind]

Don't take it personally, but I don't read blogs. Except Vox Day's. My wife's been trying to get me to join Facebook, and I absolutely refuse to join that too.

Anyway, I finally looked it up. The relevant pages are right around 251 ff. I won't quote it - it's rather lengthy and confusing - but here're the relevant parts, in my opinion.

1. He looks at the root of the word 'qlb' in Arabic, and compares that with 'qrb' in Semitic (due to the idea of Kolob being "near to" God). The Arabic seems to infer that 'qlb' is used in conjunction with four different stars, of which they name Antares and Regulus.

2. He points out that 'qalb' is used to refer to the "Heart-Star" (Canopus?) while 'kalb' is used to refer to the "Dog-Star" (Sirius).

3. After some back-and-forth, he points out that the Arabs would occasionally refer to both Canopus and Sirius by 'kalb', causing some confusion.

4. After noting that the Egyptians would use the picture of a human heart suspended as the bob on a plumb line, Nibley ultimately decides that Kolob is probably Canopus.

There's a lot of jumping around here, but I think that's the gist of it, and I think my summation is reasonably accurate. I'm not sure why Nibley went the Arabic route rather than the Assyrian or Semitic route, especially since he notes that Kolob is Semitic. (I am not sure how closely Arabic and Semitic are related.)

[Olavarria]

Don't take it personally, but I don't read blogs. Except Vox Day's. My wife's been trying to get me to join Facebook, and I absolutely refuse to join that too.

Haha. No worries. Im not a big fan of the "vomit every detail of my life" internet culture either. As for facebook, I don't have one. My blog is all about mormon apologetics.

Anyway, I finally looked it up. The relevant pages are right around 251 ff. I won't quote it - it's rather lengthy and confusing - but here're the relevant parts, in my opinion.

1. He looks at the root of the word 'qlb' in Arabic, and compares that with 'qrb' in Semitic (due to the idea of Kolob being "near to" God). The Arabic seems to infer that 'qlb' is used in conjunction with four different stars, of which they name Antares and Regulus.

2. He points out that 'qalb' is used to refer to the "Heart-Star" (Canopus?) while 'kalb' is used to refer to the "Dog-Star" (Sirius).

3. After some back-and-forth, he points out that the Arabs would occasionally refer to both Canopus and Sirius by 'kalb', causing some confusion.

4. After noting that the Egyptians would use the picture of a human heart suspended as the bob on a plumb line, Nibley ultimately decides that Kolob is probably Canopus.

There's a lot of jumping around here, but I think that's the gist of it, and I think my summation is reasonably accurate. I'm not sure why Nibley went the Arabic route rather than the Assyrian or Semitic route, especially since he notes that Kolob is Semitic. (I am not sure how closely Arabic and Semitic are related.)

Ya, go figure. Im tottally open to the possibility that im way off.

[rodheadlee]

The Dogon of Mali have a legend of Sirius that may interest you.

http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/2-96/dogon.html