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An Correlation Between the Book of Abraham . . .


consiglieri

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I expect we are all familiar with the astronomy lesson God gives Abraham in Abraham 3, which lists an order of heavenly bodies one above another in governing power culminating in Kolob, the greatest of all; and then likens these unto the order of spirits (and even perhaps "facts"), culminating in the declaration that God is greater than them all.

Abraham 3:19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

While reading some extrabiblical Abrahamic material in preparation for Gospel Doctrine class, I could not help but notice a distinct echo of this same thought pattern in chapter seven of the Apocalypse of Abraham in which Abraham deduces that there must be a God above even the sun, moon and stars:

Chapter 7

1. This I say:

2. Fire is more venerable in formation, for even the unsubdued (things) are subdued in it, and it mocks that which perishes easily by means of its

3. burning. But neither is it venerable, for it is subject to the waters.

4. But rather the waters are more venerable than it (fire), because they overcome fire and sweeten the earth with fruits.

5. But I will not call them god either, for the waters subside under the earth and are subject to it.

6. But I will not call it a goddess either, for it is dried by the sun (and) subordinated to man for his work.

7. More venerable among the gods, I say, is the sun, for with its rays it illuminates the whole universe and the various airs.

8. Nor will I place among the gods the one who obscures his course by means of the moon and the clouds.

9. Nor again shall I call the moon or the stars gods, because they too at times during the night dim their light.

10. Listen, Terah my father, I shall seek before you the God who created all the gods supposed by us (to exist).

11. For who is it, or which one is it who made the heavens crimson and the sun golden, who has given light to the moon and the stars with it, who has dried the earth in the midst of the many waters, who set you yourself among the things and who has sought me out in the perplexity of my thoughts?

12. If (only) God will reveal himself by himself to us!"

Any thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Edited to add: Sorry about the title--it should be "A correlation . . " not "An correlation." That's what comes of originally writing "An interesting correlation" and then deleting the "interesting" without changing the "An" to "A."

I don't suppose I can get a little help from a plenipotentiary Mod to change the title accordingly?

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I expect we are all familiar with the astronomy lesson God gives Abraham in Abraham 3, which lists an order of heavenly bodies one above another in governing power culminating in Kolob, the greatest of all; and then likens these unto the order of spirits (and even perhaps "facts"), culminating in the declaration that God is greater than them all.

While reading some extrabiblical Abrahamic material in preparation for Gospel Doctrine class, I could not help but notice a distinct echo of this same thought pattern in chapter seven of the Apocalypse of Abraham in which Abraham deduces that there must be a God above even the sun, moon and stars:

Any thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Edited to add: Sorry about the title--it should be "A correlation . . " not "An correlation." That's what comes of originally writing "An interesting correlation" and then deleting the "interesting" without changing the "An" to "A."

I don't suppose I can get a little help from a plenipotentiary Mod to change the title accordingly?

All the critics of the Book of Abraham I have ever seen talk about the hieroglyphics issue. Most of the apologists I have seen talk about this, too. I haven't seen very much analysis in these kinds of discussions of the content of the Book of Abraham.

Isn't there some tradition also about Abraham teaching astronomy in Egypt?

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All the critics of the Book of Abraham I have ever seen talk about the hieroglyphics issue. Most of the apologists I have seen talk about this, too. I haven't seen very much analysis in these kinds of discussions of the content of the Book of Abraham.

Isn't there some tradition also about Abraham teaching astronomy in Egypt?

Here's a discussion about Josephus and Jewish traditions of Abraham as an astronomer from a non-Mormon (as far as I know).

http://annettereed.com/reed_abraham.pdf

And here's an example of an anti-Mormon stance on the Book of Abraham. It's the same "this is just a hypocephalus" statement that you always hear.

http://www.pomotheo.com/2006/apologetics/death-blow-to-mormonism-the-book-of-abraham-is-a-fake/

Notice that this second one has no discussion at all about what the Book of Abraham actually says or whether the content of the Book of Abraham is consistent with historical sources/traditions about Abraham.

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All the critics of the Book of Abraham I have ever seen talk about the hieroglyphics issue. Most of the apologists I have seen talk about this, too. I haven't seen very much analysis in these kinds of discussions of the content of the Book of Abraham.

Isn't there some tradition also about Abraham teaching astronomy in Egypt?

Yes, there is, although it is somewhat diluted by the fact it is in Josephus, to which Joseph had access and made use of for at least other purposes.

There is also the prevalent tradition that, at an early age, idolators tried to sacrifice Abraham but he was saved by divine intervention.

There is a common theme of the destruction of idols, too. In Abraham, God destroys (overthrows) the idols when he saves Abraham. In the traditions (such as Jasher and the Apocalpyse of Abraham), Abraham gets in trouble initially by destroying the idols when he intuits they are not the real God, but that the real God is above them all.

It is this line of reasoning in AoA that I quoted in the OP.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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No takers at all?

(I must be losin' it.)

I think there is some interesting paralells. In the end I am not qualified to talk about these comparisons. If you notice I generally don't participate in threads like this one. But I do find them interesting reading.

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Yes, there is, although it is somewhat diluted by the fact it is in Josephus, to which Joseph had access and made use of for at least other purposes.

There is also the prevalent tradition that, at an early age, idolators tried to sacrifice Abraham but he was saved by divine intervention.

There is a common theme of the destruction of idols, too. In Abraham, God destroys (overthrows) the idols when he saves Abraham. In the traditions (such as Jasher and the Apocalpyse of Abraham), Abraham gets in trouble initially by destroying the idols when he intuits they are not the real God, but that the real God is above them all.

It is this line of reasoning in AoA that I quoted in the OP.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Here's a link to the AoA, since I'm being so helpful.

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/Apocalypse_of_Abraham.html

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I missed this thread first time round.

Good catch, consig. One of my projects is going to be marking up the BoA with questions I would like to explore.

Thanks, volgadon.

The reason I found this of especial interest is because I have the large volume of Abraham traditions produced by FARMS and edited by Tvedtnes, Gee and Hauglid.

They footnote every reference they see to the Book of Abraham, but for some reason they seem to have missed this one.

*pats self on back*

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

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