The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young

[David T]

Five volumes of Brigham Young text, for ahem, $500. Don't see any way I'll have access to this limited-to-350-copies set. Just wondered if anyone here was among the elite? It seems this project would be a bigger deal than it appears to be across the bloggernacle.

[thesometimesaint]

IIRC they are available on line.

http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/

[Calm]

IIRC they are available on line.

http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/

Does that link also include other texts mentioned here:

This series makes available every known published and previously unpublished sermon (discourse, speech, or public teaching) of Brigham Young, second president of the LDS Church. The texts are drawn from various manuscript collections at LDS Church Archives: Brigham Young Addresses, Brigham Young Minutes, Brigham Young Diaries, Brigham Young Office and Secretary Journals, Thomas Bullock Minutes, Willard Richards Diary, John D. Lee Journals, and Heber C. Kimball Journals, as well as from the "History of Brigham Young," "Journal History of the Church," Deseret News, History of the Church, Journal of Discourses, and Millennial Star.

NH, it would be interesting to see just how much "unpublished" material it gives. If not much, I could understand why it's not being greeted with any excitement. It would only be a convenient tool for Brigham Young enthusiasts and wouldn't they likely already have most of the material if they were committed enough to shell out $500?

I am not impressed by the flavour of the description. It certainly does not seem like it's appealing to the academic, but rather the sensationalists in its choices of quotes, etc. for example the somewhat vulgar comments and this gem it closed with:

However, he denied he was himself a prophet. Only Joseph Smith deserved the honor of that title. He was, rather, "caretaker of the Church" until one of Joseph Smith's sons stepped forward to take his rightful place at the head or until Jesus returned in glory.

[David T]

"However, he denied he was himself a prophet. Only Joseph Smith deserved the honor of that title. He was, rather, "caretaker of the Church"

It's not the first place I've heard that sentiment from Young (I was just reading something to that degree in Terryl Givens' People of Paradox). However, my understanding was that Givens was citing this in reference to immediate succession, owing in part as to why it took so long for the First Presidency to be reconstituted.

What I'd really love is for a Rough Stone Rolling-type bio of Brigham Young to be made available. RSR has a very important place in helping the lay member come to 'know' the real Brother Joseph. (and I've found the Joseph Smith Papers incredibly enlightening) I understand several BY bios are in the works now, but I don't know much about the style for any of them.

I believe that understanding Brigham Young is important - perhaps even essential - to understanding Church History, and the nature of the prophetic office, and the Restoration. There are still many individuals who, while quite knowledgeable otherwise, continue to deny that Brigham vigorously taught a highly unorthodox Adam-God understanding of scripture, or find a need to believe that BY never contradicted BY nor Modern Orthodoxy. It is thought that if he did, then it creates a serious flaw in the very nature of Church Leadership.

Even today, as the title of Hugh Nibley's book states, "Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints". While many like to distance themselves from anything concerning BY, I feel that the more that is available to study concerning his thoughts and actions helps us come closer to understanding how - and through whom - the Lord works -- even if the results make many uncomfortable.

FWIW, here's a Salt Lake Trib article on the publication.

[volgadon]

Nackhadlow, I agree with your sentiments entirely.

[Calm]

He noted that he never took "thought beforehand of what I should say" when delivering a speech

I think this is key to understanding the contradictions that occur in BY's discussions. I see it as him often just thinking aloud, in part to clarify his own thoughts, in part to invite the Spirit, in part to encourage others to think.

[Lachoneus]

It seems this project would be a bigger deal than it appears to be across the bloggernacle.

If we are lucky, after the Joseph Smith Papers Project is completed, maybe there will be a Brigham Young Papers Project.

[cksalmon]

Hi calmoriah:

You wrote:

NH, it would be interesting to see just how much "unpublished" material it gives.

Indeed, that is the interesting question. I have emailed Signature Books about that very issue and have indicated to them that I would like to post any clarifying information they might provide to this thread. If they respond, I'll be sure to post said response here.

Best.

cks

[Calm]

Hi calmoriah:

You wrote:

Indeed, that is the interesting question. I have emailed Signature Books about that very issue and have indicated to them that I would like to post any clarifying information they might provide to this thread. If they respond, I'll be sure to post said response here.

Best.

cks

I appreciate you taking the time and effort to do so. Will be very interested to find out.

---

I think a BY Papers project would also be very interesting and worthwhile...can you imagine the work involved though for all those years? They'd have to increase the staff in the CH dept for sure.

[cksalmon]

Hi calmoriah:

Will be very interested to find out.

As will I, should a response be forthcoming.

...can you imagine the work involved though for all those years?

No. I probably can't. The modern historian faces the polar opposite problem of the historian of ancient cultures: too much information vs. much too little.

Best.

cks

[cksalmon]

Ron Priddis, senior editor and managing director of Signature Books, was kind enough to send a prompt response to my inquiry. What follows is that inquiry sent to the general (e)mailbox, Mr. Priddis's helpful reply, a brief response by me to obtain explicit permission to post his comments, and some additional thoughts from him.

Greetings People of the (Signature) Book(s):

I was recently made aware of your five-volume set comprising the complete discourses of Brigham Young. As a satisfied purchaser of numerous Signature titles (including, for example, The William E. McLellin Papers: 1854-1880), I can only note my appreciation for this, your more recent endeavor. The dissemination of primary sources regarding early Mormonism I take to be an important, indeed, indispensable, scholarly undertaking.

In reading the description of the collection, I noted several components of interest: viz., Brigham Young Addresses, Brigham Young Minutes, Brigham Young Diaries, Brigham Young Office and Secretary Journals, Thomas Bullock Minutes, Willard Richards Diary, John D. Lee Journals, and Heber C. Kimball Journals.

I don't believe you're leading with your chin, here, to be sure. Much of this appears, at first blush, to be relatively difficult-to-obtain source material. On the other hand, scholars of Mormonism already have ready access to Deseret News, History of the Church, Journal of Discourses, and Millennial Star, via BYU and UU.

On a thread devoted to your collection on the Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Board, a Latter-day Saint (I am not one), raised an important question: Quoth: "...t would be interesting to see just how much 'unpublished' material it gives. If not much, I could understand why it's not being greeted with any excitement."

You can find the discussion here: http://www.mormonapo...-brigham-young/

My first thought was that the collection does seem to promise access to some otherwise "unpublished," or perhaps, merely very-difficult-to-obtain materials. But, I'm in no position to pontificate at this point.

Can you provide some sort of indication as to how much of the material in the collection is hitherto unpublished?

I'd like to post my question to you and any response you might give to that particular thread, and I request the information as much for myself as for other interested readers of that forum.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

Sincerely,

Chris

Chris

I

[Calm]

When look at volume 1, pages 320-23, I see four versions of the same talk. The variant transcriptions come from the Thomas Bullock Minutes, located in the Leonard J. Arrington Papers at Utah State University, the Quorum of the Twelve Minutes from the archives of the Church History Library in Salt Lake, the General Church Minutes from the Church History Library

[David T]

If I could spare $500, I'd quickly scoop it up. But I can't. I'm actually grateful for the way the Joseph Smith papers are being released - it's allowed me to afford them Perhaps if this had been released one volume at a time, at even $100 a pop, I may have found a way to budget around it, like I did for JSP:RT1. But no way I could plunk down that much. That's too bad, because it's exactly the resource I've wanted for a good while.

[Calm]

Thank you for alerting us to yet another example of the current apologetic that

[LifeOnaPlate]

I'd love to own it. I simply can't afford it.

[Lachoneus]

I have to wonder at the cost...why not print more and lower the cost, especially if they would like to make an impact on this field of study as I agree that it sounds quite important, but won't be accessible to many due to not only the cost, but the limited production?

Exactly my thought. It does not appear that they are serious about furthering scholarship but more about lining their pockets. I will wait to see if the BYU Library acquires a set and then leaf through that. Or not.

[David T]

It does not appear that they are serious about furthering scholarship but more about lining their pockets

I don't think that's fair. Especially due to the fact that this highly limited run will probably not be very lucrative to anyone - especially considering the relative cost of production of such a limited run of what appear to be very nicely presented volumes.

[Lachoneus]

I will wait to see if the BYU Library acquires a set and then leaf through that.

Found it. http://primofe1.byu.edu/primo_library/libweb/action/display.do?ct=display&doc=byu_unicorn4264336&indx=1&frbg=&dum=true&vid=byu-cl&vl%2815993830UI1%29=all_items&vl%2813550901UI0%29=any&srt=rank&indx=1&dstmp=1264170115596&tab=default_tab&ct=search&scp.scps=scope%3A%28LEE%29%2Cscope%3A%28BYU%29%2Cscope%3A%28LAW%29%2Cscope%3A%28byugle%29%2Cscope%3A%28Unicorn_online%29%2Cscope%3A%28CONTENTdm%29%2Cscope%3A%28JUV%29%2Cscope%3A%28SPEC%29%2Cscope%3A%28INTERNET%29%2Cscope%3A%28SWKT%29%2Cscope%3A%28SLC%29%2Cscope%3A%28LEELRC%29%2Cscope%3A%28MUSIC%29%2Cscope%3A%28saskia%29&vl%28freeText0%29=the%20complete%20discourses%20of%20Brigham%20Young&fn=search&mode=Basic&dscnt=0