Meldrum/Porter Fireside in Southern California

[cinepro]

Look what greeted me in the foyer as I went to Church today:

The top says "Valencia Stake Fireside"

For those who missed the connection, here's the cover from their latest book:

I'll let ya'll know how it goes

[Cold Steel]

Ummm...doesn't this smack of advertising and of financial gain? That the information is most likely misleading doesn't concern me as much -- people can believe what they wish -- but I find it disconcerting that this is being solicited in church.

[Mortal Man]

It's very odd that Rod Meldrum and Bruce Porter are being allowed to promote their book in LDS chapels, whereas Linda Newell and Valeen Avery were banned from speaking (p. 40) in LDS meetings shortly after their book came out. Is there a double standard here?

[Anijen]

It's very odd that Rod Meldrum and Bruce Porter are being allowed to promote their book in LDS chapels, whereas Linda Newell and Valeen Avery were banned from speaking (p. 40) in LDS meetings shortly after their book came out. Is there a double standard here?

more than likely there was no vetting process. I don't mind geography firesides but I do think there should be conditions set, such as not selling or even advertising your books or dvds during the fireside and I would be careful to watch the subject matter such as this is my theory and if you don't fall in line you are opposing the brethren... Out of interest I would like cinepro to watch out for the "ringers" in the audience to answer questions the way he wants answered. I know Meldrum would use this tactic I am not sure about Porter.

[cinepro]

Ummm...doesn't this smack of advertising and of financial gain? That the information is most likely misleading doesn't concern me as much -- people can believe what they wish -- but I find it disconcerting that this is being solicited in church.

I doubt there will be any "pitches" for the books at the fireside (and they're not selling tickets). Certainly, it would be in poor taste to set up a table with books for sale in the foyer, but beyond that, there isn't anything wrong with having someone give a fireside on a topic of interest to the saints, regardless of whether they have published a book about it.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, or how many people show up. I might even have to come up with a simple question to ask.

[Mortal Man]

more than likely there was no vetting process. I don't mind geography firesides but I do think there should be conditions set, such as not selling or even advertising your books or dvds during the fireside and I would be careful to watch the subject matter such as this is my theory and if you don't fall in line you are opposing the brethren... Out of interest I would like cinepro to watch out for the "ringers" in the audience to answer questions the way he wants answered. I know Meldrum would use this tactic I am not sure about Porter.

As Elder Oaks explained to Linda Newell, it is against church policy to use church meetings to push the sale of products. Neither Linda nor Valeen ever did that (as far as I know) but it sure looks like Rod and Bruce are doing it. You don't have to specifically pitch your book to your audience in order to promote it, just speaking about the topic will accomplish sales. The only differences I see between these two cases is the subject matter of the books, the awards they've received and the involvement of the press.

[notHagoth7]

I might even have to come up with a simple question to ask.

If you wouldn't mind, I'm interested in whether their model is compatible with a Hagoth-era exodus to the Pacific Isles.

If it is, I'd be interested to hear how they reckon ships from the Great Lakes making their way into the Pacific.

[notHagoth7]

...just speaking about the topic will accomplish sales...

Not necessarily.

If one shares freely, it will appease most people's interest - and will thereby cannibalize whatever interest most people had in paying for the info. But if one's intent is to garner sales, one will tell just enough, tease just enough, to whet the appetite for more.

I'd be interested to hear which tack they take.

[Wiki Wonka]

It's very odd that Rod Meldrum and Bruce Porter are being allowed to promote their book in LDS chapels, whereas Linda Newell and Valeen Avery were banned from speaking (p. 40) in LDS meetings shortly after their book came out. Is there a double standard here?

They are not allowed to do so. Specifically, Rod Meldrum is not allowed to hold such presentations (which used to be billed as "firesides" when they first began giving them) in Church-owned properties. Note that the poster only has Bruce Porter's name on it, whereas the book has both of their names on it.

Edited: Corrected "firesides" to note that they aren't really firesides.

[sethpayne]

Specifically, Rod Meldrum is not allowed to hold such "firesides" in Church-owned properties. Note that the poster only has Bruce Porter's name on it, whereas the book has both of their names on it.

Wait... RM -- specifically -- has been officially banned from speaking at firesides?

[Greg Smith]

If you wouldn't mind, I'm interested in whether their model is compatible with a Hagoth-era exodus to the Pacific Isles.

If it is, I'd be interested to hear how they reckon ships from the Great Lakes making their way into the Pacific.

The DVD presentation mentions that Hagoth "could have just followed the Great Lakes all the way out to the ocean, and from there he could go anywhere."

Unfortunately for this model, according to Alma 63:5, Hagoth launched his boat into the west sea, which Meldrum identifies as Lake Michigan. His boat was not small, as Alma 63:6 indicates that many Nephites entered into it and it held "much provisions" and held "many women and children." This would make it impossible to navigate natural obstacles such as Niagara Falls (which connects Lake Erie and Lake Ontario), and such navigation would be necessary in order to get to the ocean.Thus, this claim is impossible. When Hagoth was building and sailing boats (approximately 55 BC) it was impossible to navigate a ship from the Great Lakes to the ocean. Such navigation was not possible until the construction of the Erie Canal in 1825.

See here:

http://www.fairlds.org/DNA_Evidence_for_Book_of_Mormon_Geography/DEBMG02F.html

GLS

[Wiki Wonka]

Wait... RM -- specifically -- has been officially banned from speaking at firesides?

No, not at all. Brother Meldrum isn't allowed to use Church-owned facilities for his Book of Mormon presentations if they are going to sell things. I would imagine that he could give a real fireside if he wanted. His regular BoM presentations are not firesides. That's why "firesides" is in quotes. I went to a Bruce Porter presentation that was scheduled to be held in a chapel about a year ago. When I arrived at the chapel, they had moved the venue to a nearby country club just a couple of hours previous (based upon the time stamp of the Google maps they left). It appears that they had been told to move. The folks that I talked with at the presentation said that it had been announced over the pulpit as a fireside, but when they went to the actual presentation, they realized that it was part of a commercial venture (books and CDs for sale at the event.)

Edited to add text.

[Greg Smith]

No, not at all. Brother Meldrum isn't allowed to use Church-owned facilities for his Book of Mormon presentations if they are going to sell things.

Meldrum told me and others at FAIR on the phone that his Stake President had asked him not to speak or advertise his presentations in LDS Church buildings.

See here

Perhaps the absence of Meldrum's name from the poster (and presentation) inclines them to think that no restriction therefore applies.

GLS

[cinepro]

Meldrum told me and others at FAIR on the phone that his Stake President had asked him not to speak or advertise his presentations in LDS Church buildings.

See here

Perhaps the absence of Meldrum's name from the poster (and presentation) inclines them to think that no restriction therefore applies.

GLS

I'm curious who, exactly, organized the fireside and placed the poster in the foyer. Sadly, I'm not in a position to find out without being unduly nosy.

[Daniel Peterson]

For what it's worth, I believe (based on what I've read over at the Compound) that I'm supposed to be frothing at the mouth with sheer rage and panic over Rod Meldrum, Bruce H. Porter, and Wayne May, and that my associates at the Maxwell Institute are also supposed to be in a hysterical lather.

So I guess I'd better post something on a thread related to Meldrum, Porter, and/or May, so as to make such claims at least somewhat plausible.

There.

I've done it.

That said, coming even close to pushing a commercial agenda in a chapel is extraordinarily inappropriate. Whether this does so or not, I'll leave to others to discuss and determine.

[frankenstein]

That said, coming even close to pushing a commercial agenda in a chapel is extraordinarily inappropriate. Whether this does so or not, I'll leave to others to discuss and determine.

i think having any association with "Sunday Church" as opposed to Institute Church is inappropriate for such an agenda as meldrum et al have.

Cinepro how was the meeting? was there peddling of wares? how was it introduced by the Stake Presidency?

[Lamanite]

I'm not sure what the rules are for Firesides. I don't know if there is a categorical list of do's or dont's.

However, since I'm ignorant of any such rules I will provide a list of what I want to see:

1. Jesus atoned and died for your sins.

2. Jesus was resurrected.

3. Jesus loves you more than you know and his grace and mercy are sufficient (I don't want anything about justice)

4. Joseph Smith restored the gospel and translated the BoM (I don't want you to tell me "how" you think he translated it)

5. The modern Church is led by a Prophet--Say something nice about President Monson.

That's plenty of subject material. I feel particular attention should be paid to numbers 1-3.

As a Mormon I don't want to see our Chapel's used for the dissemination of Meldrum/Porter/May opinions. It would be best if we simply preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[cinepro]

Cinepro how was the meeting? was there peddling of wares? how was it introduced by the Stake Presidency?

The fireside is on January 31, so we'll find out then.

[SilverKnight]

I'll let ya'll know how it goes

Thank you!

I await your return and report Cinepro.

This snakeoil salesman has no business hawking his flim-flam in LDS chapels.

[cinepro]

Thank you!

I await your return and report Cinepro.

This snakeoil salesman has no business hawking his flim-flam in LDS chapels.

I agree. LDS chapels should be 100% flim-flam free.

[Lamanite]

I agree. LDS chapels should be 100% flim-flam free.

If me and consiglieri get fired our classrooms may be flim-flam and clap trap free.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Wiki Wonka]

For what it's worth, I believe (based on what I've read over at the Compound) that I'm supposed to be frothing at the mouth with sheer rage and panic over Rod Meldrum, Bruce H. Porter, and Wayne May, and that my associates at the Maxwell Institute are also supposed to be in a hysterical lather.

So I guess I'd better post something on a thread related to Meldrum, Porter, and/or May, so as to make such claims at least somewhat plausible.

There.

I've done it.

That said, coming even close to pushing a commercial agenda in a chapel is extraordinarily inappropriate. Whether this does so or not, I'll leave to others to discuss and determine.

It is possible that focusing upon you in the virtual world is better than real life for your MS. From what I can see, his chosen line of work may be suffering in today's economy:

Doctor Scratch Cattle Duster

WW

[Daniel Peterson]

Wow. What a crippling blow to Scratcholepsy.

[mysteryman]

For those that seem angry that Meldrum or Porter are being allowed to give a presentation in a chapel of their "opinions" about Book of Mormon geography, I know for a fact this is not the first time such a thing has happened. In 2006 I attended a meeting at a chapel, not sure if it was called a "fireside" or not, where Richard Bushman was allowed to discuss his biography of Joseph Smith and express his "opinions" about Joseph. No they did not sell his book there, but the fireside was specifically about his book. I am curious, those that are upset and losing sleep over Meldrum and Porter being allowed to talk about their "opinions" and findings when it comes to Book of Mormon geography, are you guys just as upset that Richard Bushman was given a platform in a chapel to discuss his book?

[Greg Smith]

For those that seem angry that Meldrum or Porter are being allowed to give a presentation in a chapel of their "opinions" about Book of Mormon geography, I know for a fact this is not the first time such a thing has happened. In 2006 I attended a meeting at a chapel, not sure if it was called a "fireside" or not, where Richard Bushman was allowed to discuss his biography of Joseph Smith and express his "opinions" about Joseph. No they did not sell his book there, but the fireside was specifically about his book. I am curious, those that are upset and losing sleep over Meldrum and Porter being allowed to talk about their "opinions" and findings when it comes to Book of Mormon geography, are you guys just as upset that Richard Bushman was given a platform in a chapel to discuss his book?

Richard Bushman is under no restriction from his stake president not to speak in Church buildings. Rod Meldrum is. A rather big difference, wouldn't you say?

Plus, Richard Bushman doesn't accuse those who disagree with him of "dismissing and disparaging Joseph Smith." Another rather significant difference.

GLS