A Followup Thread for DanGB

[volgadon]

Here is a link to a work by the late Raphael Patai of the Hebrew University, The Children of Noah, a work on ancient Hebrew seafaring in which he includes a bit on Nephi. There is also a bit on the Jaredites. Search the book for Book of Mormon, Nephi, Joseph Smith, you get the picture.

http://books.google.com/books?id=kX7YXtI4POkC&dq=the+children+of+noah&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=7eL6r8GyMM&sig=AQU65CCLmjo007VUxKZ9F-ugq7g&hl=en&ei=3nFBS6ixD4ywswON553HBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[Maya]

Very interesting thank you. How long do you think this book will be on line?

[DanGB]

Here is a link to a work by the late Raphael Patai of the Hebrew University, The Children of Noah, a work on ancient Hebrew seafaring in which he includes a bit on Nephi. There is also a bit on the Jaredites. Search the book for Book of Mormon, Nephi, Joseph Smith, you get the picture.

http://books.google.com/books?id=kX7YXtI4POkC&dq=the+children+of+noah&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=7eL6r8GyMM&sig=AQU65CCLmjo007VUxKZ9F-ugq7g&hl=en&ei=3nFBS6ixD4ywswON553HBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

volgadon,

Google only let's me view a limited number of pages there. I read Patai's forward to the book as to why and how he wrote it. It did not contain any reference to any LDS scharship or the BOM. Since you are obviously more well versed in his works and the link to the specific LDS scholarship he read, found convincing and relied upon in this work, perhaps you could provide the reference showing this link. Otherwise. I am having a difficult time understanding what specific works of LDS scholarship Patai fancied and found convincing.

Thanks in advance.

[frankenstein]

could you elaborate on what is this book suppose to show/demonstrate?I did a search for "nephi" and the hits were all in the appendix, which was written by Dr. John Lundquist

[volgadon]

Maya, I don't know.

DanGB,

Google lets me view the exact same amount of pages you can. Did you not look at the table of contents? There is an entire appendix containing an LDS scholar's article on Nephi. Did you try any of the searches I suggested?

Here is a question for you, why would a Jewish professor include material on a 19th century Christian fraud in a work on anceint Hebrew seafaring?

And out of interest, did you note Patai's glowing compliments towards Hugh Nibley?

[volgadon]

could you elaborate on what is this book suppose to show/demonstrate?

I could, but you could first take a look at DanGB's previous threads.

[DanGB]

could you elaborate on what is this book suppose to show/demonstrate?

Kind of my same thoughts except I think Patai puts forth the possibility of seafaring Hebrew sailors. I just don't understand why it would be used in defense of LDS scholarship on the historicity of the BOM. Perhaps volgadon knows the specifics.

[volgadon]

Now, without trying to derail ther threads (and or egos ), I am trying to find the most convinci g works of LDS scholarship in the areas of geography, history. athropology or archaeogy in supporting the existance of the history in the Book Of Mormon.

I have seen reference to works by LDS authors who seem extreamely well credentialed and qualified to speak and address such ares of academic research and field work.

But my question, for my own needs is: has any of their works convinced the a academic world outside of what we might read in Ensign and other church sponsored publications?

My need would be to respond to this question I get from the very basic thinkers outside the church who seem to ask the obvious.

Seeing reference to all the great credentials we obviously have within the church in these area of study, I just wanted to know if, and which ones, have been accepted and or even acknowledged as evidence for our ancient history claim?

Just being a real member here. But acknowledging not from Utah in advance, again!

So the simple answer is that Raphael Patai, a Jewish, Israeli academic, found the seafaring accounts in the BoM convincing enough to include an essay by John Lundquist in a book on ancient Hebrew seafaring. This is what you were asking for, isn't it, DanGB?

[DanGB]

This is what you were asking for, isn't it, DanGB?

No, not at all. You need to go back to my first post under the : "In Need Of Convincing LDS Scholarship" thread.

[volgadon]

Look above your last post here.

[DanGB]

Look above your last post here.

Ditto!

[volgadon]

Ditto!

Then how come you fail to recognise your very own OP from the ancient evidences thread?

[frankenstein]

Raphael Patai, a Jewish, Israeli academic, found the seafaring accounts in the BoM convincing enough to include an essay by John Lundquist in a book on ancient Hebrew seafaring

does anyone have the book, one has to admit it is telling that a scholar would reference another even though in a appendix.

[volgadon]

does anyone have the book, one has to admit it is telling that a scholar would reference another even though in a appendix.

Which, according to pg. 21, he himself commissioned.

[ed2276]

Kind of my same thoughts except I think Patai puts forth the possibility of seafaring Hebrew sailors. I just don't understand why it would be used in defense of LDS scholarship on the historicity of the BOM. Perhaps volgadon knows the specifics.

Perhaps it relates to Nephi's shipbuilding and Nephite maritime trade in BoM lands?

Hel. 3:

10 And it came to pass as timber was exceedingly scarce in the land northward, they did send forth much by the way of shipping.

[volgadon]

The only question is, where are the Nephite ships? We don't know.

Rotted away.

[ed2276]

Rotted away.

Probably so. Now I know.

[Hamba Tuhan]

When I was a uni student in America in the 90s, I took an Institute class from Dr Reed Durham. In it, he shared with us a letter from a professor of Semitic literature at some university that I can't recall (though I have an inkling it may have been Columbia) in reply to a letter Bro Durham had sent him. He had heard that this professor was using the Book of Mormon in one of his classes on Semitic poetry, and Bro Durham had asked him why. In response, the professor said he was not prepared to comment on the book's 'spiritual truth claims' but stated that he used it because it was one of the best examples he knew of Biblical pseudepigrapha, with unmistakably ancient and Semitic poetic forms.

Of course, I suspect this is still not whatever it is DanGB is looking for....

[volgadon]

I suspect that DanGB, for whatever reason, doesn't wanted his question answered in the affirmitive.

[Daniel Peterson]

It's rather like a fellow who says to his underling "Go get me a rock."

The subordinate goes out and gets a rock and brings it back.

"No," replies the boss. "Not that one."

So the employee goes out, looks around, finds a really nice rock, and brings it back to his boss.

"No," replies the head man. "Not that one, either."

"Could you describe the kind of rock you want?" asks the underling.

"No. When you bring me the right one, I'll tell you."

So the employee goes out again, finds a rock, and brings it back.

"That's not the rock I want," says his employer.

So the subordinate goes out yet again, finds yet another rock, and brings it back . . .

(Let's call the employee Sisyphus Jr..)

[Scott Lloyd]

(Let's call the employee Sisyphus Jr..)

Could it be that he is having us all on? I'm having trouble conceiving of someone being truly this dense.

[volgadon]

Could it be that he is having us all on? I'm having trouble conceiving of someone being truly this dense.

That is kind of what I think, but I wanted to leave him with no rocks to hide behind.

[Scott Lloyd]

That is kind of what I think, but I wanted to leave him with no rocks to hide behind.

Understandable, but the waste of bandwidth getting to that point is lamentable.

[volgadon]

I do feel like Sisyphus jr, but bump.

[DanGB]

I do feel like Sisyphus jr, but bump.

Volgy,

Luv to be enticed! But rght now I'm worrying about the second half w/o Colt. We ain't looking too good right now and I don't even think a Watson letter via Hamblin is gonna help! This just ain't fantasy land! Lol

Get back to ya after the game sometime. Got bigger issues than "where is cumorah right now"!